Mickey wrote a darn good post about the motivations which lead to his lifestyle choice. He is more or less going with the Dakin plan of gentile poverty. Not that Dakin invented it but he definitely coined my favorite description for it and thus gets mentioned.
The post also briefly touched on the topic of women. First of all I want to say that I like boobs a whole lot. That has nothing to do with anything except women have them and my random thought generator is on high today. Anyway I am coming to see through a variety of different areas (peoples posts, comments, etc) that some essential topics need to be revisited from time to time. While readership on most blogs doesn't change that much month to month we do need to realize that individual readers come and go. It might not be a bad idea to post on some key topics from time to time, maybe quarterly.
I hear two typical gripes when it comes to survivalists griping about their wives. (To a much smaller degree women readers griping about their husbands in the same context.) The first is rather small and simple. It goes something like "I want to get (enter the name of a relatively low priced item) but my wife vetoed it". I have a couple thoughts about this. First of all there is a real simple answer to this, personal money. We do this and I can't see how any marriage survives without it. This is money that you both get to do whatever you want no questions asked. Spend it on good tasting lip gloss, hair products, shotgun shells or high capacity magazines or save it. The point of this is that you can do whatever you want with it. Survivalism aside I strongly suggest implementing this plan. Want a rifle or a dozen machetes but the wife is not on board? Save up your pocket money and get it.
For slightly larger (say a few hundred dollars but + - depending on your finances) items here is another idea, I bet she wants something also. Within the limits of your finances she is a lot more likely to be willing to allocate resources towards that sweet new whatever if she just got something nice. I have an awesome Wife who really asks for very little in terms of material goods but when she asks for something the answer is almost invariably yes. I think that a culture of both of you getting the reasonable things you want and can afford breeds a sort of good nature about it. This week we are spending cash on what you want but last week I got that spam can of ammo or whatever. I do know for certain that the fastest way to get a spouse to start being nit picky about that stuff is to do that to them.
Why don't guys do this I often ask myself? I think part of the answer is that one can look at survivalism as essential and thus not a hobby and thus something which falls outside the compromising realm (nothing in marriage falls outside the compromise realm). With small reoccurring expenses like extra canned goods or a few blue 5 gallon water jugs in my experience it is usually a non issue. Unless we are shorter then normal me picking up something on a trip to the store is a given. I think it is more important to focus on your desired end state of getting the preps you want instead of thinking about and arguing principle. I have chosen this path and it has worked out pretty well for me. If some nice stuff appears in her jewelry box (or whatever else she likes) odds are the ruggedly awesome you have been wanting Mosin Nagant will show up in the closet.
This pretty much covers my thoughts on how to deal with the smaller issues.
Ironically from what I see no issues seem to come up between a few hundred bucks and a massive and total change in lifestyle namely moving to a trailer in the middle of nowhere. All I can say about that is if both parties are really not 100% on board with it that dog isn't going to hunt.
Wifey and I have talked about this in a combination of a conceptual discussion and our own experiences with preparedness finances. Somewhere down the road she will write on the matter. I/We were lucky that my paranoia was fully developed when we entered into marriage. For better or worse all the cards were on the table before hand. I do not suggest revealing your paranoia on a first date but somewhere between that and promising to spend the rest of your natural life with someone it would be a good thing to have some serious conversations about.
For those of you who got all nuts after making lifelong vows and the spouse isn't on board with the whole thing. Aside from the basics of what I said above I do have a couple suggestions. First start gradually: a few cans of food and a couple gallons of water at the grocery store, a couple boxes of ammo for your ccw/ bedroom handgun, a bit of emergency cash in the sock drawer. Gradually increasing the size and scope of your paranoia's impact on life will give her some time to get used to it.
Also I have had pretty good luck with explaining exactly what I want to get and why I want to get it. Someone who sees a need for say clean water is a lot more likely to be OK with some cash disappearing from the bank account for a water filter.
Oh yeah, I am sorry if it seemed like I was picking at anyone or anything like that or if it came off as know it all. I am just putting what I have experienced (or observed) that works and doesn't work.
How does it work in your house? If it doesn't work then why doesn't it?
Posts
24 comments:
Mickey's post was a great read. And the boobs you linked to were very sweet. But when we put both together, * in the flesh * there are many, many problems.
During the cold season, living with any other person in a trailer like Mickey's would become a real drag. Even a wench like in the photo. Maybe *especially* one like her. I have spent two weeks at a time and brother, you are ready to get the fuck out of there after that. And that is just eating breakfast, hunting all day, eating supper, drinking a beer and sleeping there. Lather, rinse, repeat.
I bet that it is like one in ten thousand women (or less) that would care to participate in that game. I admire Mickey for what he is doing, it just ain't for me.
Milton F, Wifey and I lived in an RV for awhile and it was interesting.
Very good advice on having some private money. We put money into the common account to pay the common bills i.e. mortgage, utilities, gasoline, groceries, plus a little extra for emergencies. The rest is personal money that we can use for ourselves. The system is easiest to figure out if both parties make a similar amount of money. Some compromise is required if there is a big difference in incomes, but that is part of marriage.
Don't forget that the stuff in her jewelry box can be an investment in more than just good will.
I had a chance to live on a boat, something I've wanted to do all my adult life. It was a good deal, just live on the boat down in Florida, handle keeping it clean, and my brother would pay me a stipend. He got a tax write off. My wife said no. Just flat ass "no." There have been very few times in my life when my wife didn't just go along with the program, but when she doesn't, it is always at life changing moments. Then you have to decide which you want more, the wife or whatever she is stopping you from doing or having. So I do not rule the roost and I can't override her desires. However, we don't keep separate money. We have been married since 1982, and we have always both worked. She handles the household side of buying, I handle the routine bill paying, and preparations. Sometimes she spends too much, sometimes I do. I can't remember it ever being an issue, though.
as soon as i got wifey hooked on shooting and hiking the prep expenses weren't a problem ;)
This underscores the importance of finding a wife who shares the same interests and values as you.
Boobs are a dime a dozen (or should I say "pair") and there will always be another set coming down the road.
Don't settle for whatever washes up on shore - choose your set of boobs wisely and you will be a happy man. Choose poorly and your life will go down the tubes.
Hubby and I really don't spend money unless we talk about it first. I am not talking about small things like new shoes for the kids or food or anything like that. But if there is any semi-major purchase that either of us want or need, we talk it over.
Having been married for 25 years, I can say that my husband and I share all things, even money. With the respect we each have learned for one anthor's opinions, we know the other will not abuse the use of money. If I want something,I get it. he does like wise,because we both are aware and responsible adults. Never had a problem.
I lived in a two room tent with my husband and four children in the jungle for over a year. An RV would have been a luxury! The challenge is that ,what ever faults or idiosyncrasies you each have, under such living conditions, will be magnified 10x. At least! Be prepared to be patient with one another.
Bitmap, We do not have separate finances but there are a million ways to skin the financial cat. Whatever works as long as everyone is happy.
Hermit, I think for big things it has got to be mutual. If my wife said she wanted to move to NYC I would say no. Seems like your money system is working pretty well.
Anon, Nice.
Survival Topics, I think values are more important than interests. Guess if someone respects you and what you want to do is reasonable then things should work fine.
Gracie, We have a hybrid that includes that system. If you save up a large amount of pocket money (what the separate money is) to purchase something then get it whenever, no questions asked. However when it comes to significant purchases (say over 50 bucks) aside from the normal groceries and such we talk about it. Usually it is routine stuff: she needs X for the house, I need a new pair of boots for work, whatever. Just so everyone is on the same page and we both agree it is a good time to purchase X. Sometimes we decide to wait till the next payday or something.
Jungle Mom, Seems like it is working well for you. Aside from pocket money we do the same thing and it is working pretty well. A tent is a lot more primitive then an RV. I would love to read more about your experiences living that way with kids.
Because money and responsibility for its use has been a continuing struggle within my 20+ year marriage, I recently decided that we would maintain separate accounts with a share of the monthly expenses allocated to each of us in proportion to our income.
The result has been a sudden increase in frugality on the part of my spouse, and knowing that I had complete responsibility for my share, I have buckled myself into a more carefully planned spending plan as well.
What works for one marriage may not work for all. In our case this has permitted us to weather a suddenly tighter financial situation where previously profligate spending threatened to bankrupt us in short order.
Now I know just how much I have left each month for prep expenses.
The hubby and I lived in a travel trailer for a year...the saving grace was, besides the fact we get along just fine...we both spent most of the days outdoors working on our property. We were building the dream, so every day in that camper was worth it.
As far as money - because the husband was deployed a lot, I've had to sell cars and houses without him. We agreed that all financial decisions made alone, were past history, since the spouse with that decision had to use best judgement.
There have been times when all the cars were in his name, and the house was in mine, and vice-versa. We sort out the details later.
That trust has allowed us to develop a monetary cushion that works for us. Sometimes I want something big and expensive, I'll buy it and tell him about it later. I handle the money, but I keep him well-updated.
If he's headed out to an auction or somewhere to hang out...I'll mention what the budget can tolerate, or whether he should use the "card." Oftentimes, he just takes the cash stash we maintain.
I've come home to find shiny new objects without him telling me, too. Because he's well aware of the budget, he can make a determination, too.
Works for us.
We tried the allowance thing, but half the time, I needed his money, and the other half, he needed mine. Now we simply keep a cash stash and whoever's going somewhere simply gets it out of the can. If they return without using it, it goes back in the can.
Dakin isn't exactly a success in the wife department. His 'nobly poor' schtick seems to have run off yet another wife.
having individual 'mad money' (aka individual money for ridiculously impractical but cute shoes or the latest gun porn) is sooooo important!
and while i agree that some prep is really important ... most ladies (myself included!) do not want to live like the zombie apocalypse is here until it really is here (and even then we'll only do it because we HAVE to!). there are many, many good reasons to live like that, but while there are luxuries to enjoy in the world, i want to enjoy them! :)
Desert Cat, What works for one marriage does not necessarily work for another. The only really important things are that it works and both of you are happy with it.
1:36, I can see that. We did it. While glad we did it neither of us are in a big hurry to do it again. I can see how having some property and being active outside would really help keep the walls from closing in.
1:44, I can see that. Glad it has worked out well for you two. We like the pocket money system but I can see how other ways would work. Lots of communication is needed for sure when two people are spending out of the same account.
1:53, I noted that. Do not know if the relationship between his move off grid and the recent split was cause and effect or just casual.
2:08, I concur on both accounts. For the most part we live a fairly normal life these days.
I read Creekmore's post and it may have been me, but there seemed to be just a little contempt of women in his snide remark that they wouldnt live in a trailer in the middle of nowhere...
Again, it just may be me, but maybe it isnt the trailer they wouldnt live with, but maybe Mr. Creekmore.
We camp and we stay in a 34' trailer with me, hubs and 3 kids. We go out for weeks at a time. The longest is over 3 weeks and when we came back, I made the comment that I could do that long term. In fact, the trailer is to be moved next to the house we are building soon and we will be residing pretty much permanently once the kids are out of school, so we will give it a go!
I agree that everyone having some mad money is best and giving each other consideration in regards to things that are important to them is what marriage is about.
Also, flashing boob every now and then doesnt hurt either ;)
Good topic - its a touchy one, but you handled it well!
This has been interesting!
Of course, what works for one couple may not work for another. Across the years, I suppose we have even changed our own habits a few times as circumstances demanded.
Also, I tend to agree with tractor pearl! Some woman can rough it if needed with no complaint. I know quite a few who do and have.
Very interesting reading!
Pearls, I noticed that also. While I do not know what has transpired in his last relationship you very well could have a point. As for the RV/ Trailer stuff it is a bit different if you do it long term but you do have a point. I will be interested in hearing how living in the trailer longer term goes for your fam.
As for the roughing it thing I don't think gender is that big of a factor. Wanting to be roughing it is probably a far more important indicator of success.
And a bit of boob always helps;)
Thanks for the kind words.
Jungle Mom, Seems like money arrangements need to ebb and flow as conditions change. As for roughing it I think women can do just about anything they want to if intrinsically motivated to do so.
I drive my tractor in pearls...and theotherryan
How do you pull a contempt of women and snide remark from what I said in the post?
"It's not a bad life, albeit lonely at times. Most women are not programed to live like this, finding a compatible mate becomes rather difficult, once you move off grid. You guys, that are thinking about doing this should forget about the wife coming alone for the ride, very few will, you will be on your own. I know it hurts, but the truth always does."
Most women and most men for that matter do not want to live off-grid. How many women do you know that would do this, a few will, most would not.
When I decided to do this I told my wife at the time what I wanted to do and she laughed in my face. Said she would not live like a dog and if I wanted to do this I could do it without her. Well here I am, and I don't miss her a bit.
interesting indeed. Talking as the outsider here... lol.. *looks for grenades*
1- doesn't matter if it is preparidness or hot wheel cards. If you have a collection type personality, you need to find a solution to accomidate it. May sound silly, but i know a couple who divorced over beanie babies. seriously. It all comes down to respect of personal intrests, and it goes both ways.
2- if you hadn't been in the business of preparidness (or going green or beanies) for the mass majority of your relationship, don't expect a full tilt attitude from your mate, especially if it is really life altering. change takes time, and respecting that and your partner are essencial.
3- some people just can't get as involved as you in something. You need to do what ever i is you need to do i suppose... but I personally hope if you enter into a marriage you do so with *its* survival above other things. Not for any moral reason, but because having a partner beside you I find is more fufilling than a house of objects. Maybe that's just me.
and to back mr.creekmore, I wouldn't have gone. no way, no how. =P
TOR - i think this may have been the first comment i've left on your site... hope I wasn't to uppity..lol..
Xmichra, As an old hand at Hermits place you are welcome here. I think balance is the key when it comes to collecting stuff and such. Be it preps, beenie babys or whatever the principle is the same. I concur that expecting sudden 180 deg turns in people is not realistic.
M.D., Like so many things in life what I personally felt from that post was somewhat difficult to quantify. I think it was the part where you tell guys there wife will not come along. Maybe Pearls and I just saw something the wrong way, who knows.
I am sorry things didn't go well with your wife but as you said it "When I decided to do this I told my wife..." doesn't ring of s spirit of cooperation.
Anyway sorry if I offended. My intent was to talk about an important topic, not to take a jab at you.
Mr. Creekmore - After I posted, I went back and read again, your post. The second time it did not strike me as it did the first and I had every intention of reposting comments to that effect. Life got in the way and I didnt get a chance to do so, so I will now.
Your comment was not snide or mean spirited. I do think that there are just as many men who would not move off the grid.
I apologize for my remarks and will continue to read your articles. They are informative and are filled with great information, as was the cd I previously purchased.
Just one little thing - please remember that a bunch of your readers are chicks and posting gender neutral might not be a bad idea - stating the significant other might not want to join off the grid is better than telling the guys to kiss th wife goodbye ;) I am paraphrasing, of course.
Thanks for all yall do (MD and TOR :)
Pearls
Pearls,
I didn't get offended, I just wanted to make sure that what I wrote in the post made sense and wasn't taken in the wrong way. Sometime the wrong word completely distorts the meaning of a sentence.
I have a tendency to write from a male perspective for obvious reasons forgetting to look at the female point of view. Thanks for the advise on this matter.
Post a Comment