My recent post on Group Standard Weapons got a lot of good comments. I had a conversation with one of the LMI's last night and the group standard weapons discussion is settled.
Ruger 10/22
Remington 870
Glock 9mm
AR-15
We aren't particularly worried about commonality in terms of shotguns and .22 rifles at least right away. Since .22 rifles are for target practice and small game hunting there is no need to be able to cross level mags. With pump shotguns (we all have them but they are different brands) there are no mags to worry about. Future purchases will get us onto the same page in terms of .22's and shotguns. Rifles and pistols are the main concern in terms of compatibility. I think (lets not enter the caliber discussion) the modularity of the AR platform makes it an easy sell.
Down the road we will probably add a semi auto .308. What it will be (maybe HK-91 clones) remains to be seen but since we still need to get on the same page with the above weapons it will be awhile before that bridge needs to be crossed.
Anyway it is good that we have this settled. Now future purchases can be made with a clear direction.
Thoughts?
Posts
17 comments:
One advantage of standardization extending to .22s and shotguns is spare parts and the knowing how to change them out. If you all have the same kind of shotgun then having 2 spare extractors and 2 spare firing pins could keep a large number of guns working. If you have 5 different kinds of shotguns then you need 5 different kinds of spares and the knowledge to work on 5 different kinds.
Plus, if someone fires with a mud plug in the barrel then you've got an almost complete set of spare parts. If you blow the barrel up on the single example of a shotgun then you have spare parts for nothing, although you might be able to trade them to someone outside your group.
Bitmap, I do agree that total standardization is ideal. That is our long goal. In the case of .22's and shotguns it will probably come around in a fairly natural process when folks want to pick up a .22 or another shotgun.
What about the M1A for a good, accurate, simple to maintain, reliable, semi-auto .308?
I agree with the theory of total standardization across the board, but why limit yourself to only that? If you are a gun nut, like me, you will have the four group standard weapons in addition to your personal arsenal.
If you can stick to the Keep It Simple Stupid rule for standardization it will be easier for everyone. Then whatever add-ons people bring to the table can be used for specialty purposes. You can even make that a rule. Every member must have the four standard weapons, and three weapons that no one else has. This will add some diversity to your stockpile and give you more options in your defensive planning.
The addition of a Barrett .50cal, and a suppressed .22 pistol shooting subsonic ammo can place you leaps and bounds ahead of what you may encounter. A little diversity can go a long way, so don't just limit yourself to the group standards. KISS, but think outside the box.
SIDE NOTE - For your .308/7.62 semi-auto, I like the FN FAL.
makes sense...was the decision for 9mm based on existing purchases, military availability, capacity? i'm curious how you landed on that...
Sgt Jarhead, Everyone having the same rifle, pistol, shotgun and .22 is about as simple as things can get. It is about having a common set of weapons which we each possess.
Above that standard people can get whatever they want. We all have some gun collector in us and divergent interests. A Barret .50 and a suppressed pistol could both be useful for sure.
B3n, Really all of them. A combination of existing purchases, commonality of caliber, capacity and commonality of platform. Doesn't get much more standard then a Glock 9mm.
My only change would be a Mossberg 500 for the shotgun. I believe it is the only shotgun certified for military use, as well.
I think you took me wrong. I was agreeing with you. I guess I was just restating the obvious. Sorry. LOL
TOM, Currently our Army is buying Mossberg 590's and the Marines are using Benelli's. I think Winchester, Remington and Mossberg pump shotguns are all present in the armories of our military forces. Having owned the two (Moss500 and Rem 870) I lean towards the Remington as an all around slightly better made gun. Calling the two functionally equivalent would probably be fair.
SGT Jarhead, No worries. Often we bloggers quibble by restating the same thing in slightly different ways.
This is what we are working for as well. We are looking at adding a suppressor for the 10/22 as well as a ruger 22 with a suppressor. The AR-10 will probably be the .308 - this will provide a more standard training experience with the AR-15. And finally if we can the Barrett .50cal would round out for extreme distance and harder targets....
Finally 1000 rounds for 9mm, 223, 308, 50cal, and 25000 22lr.
Man I have allot of work to do to pay for this while staying on the food and other equipment we are prepping.
BTW we are moving to Savanna next month. Nothing like a little change on top of this madness!
iakk
Iakk, Seems like god plans. Did you just omit shotgun ammo? I strongly suggest having shotguns. I think I would have more then 1k (think 2-3k+) for my AR before I looked at getting a .308. Good point about standardization of platforms with the AR-10. Go for one of the ones which takes FN-FAL mags so the bank isn't broken. I would have a lot of .223 and .308 before I even thought of getting a .50cal. At 3 bucks a bullet or so they are punitively expensive to load (let alone purchase). A couple silenced .22's could be convenient.
Buy your .308 mags now, when they're cheap(er) and available.
Right now, G3 mags are kind of cheap and kind of available. Buy lots (in the hundreds). Even if you don't decide on weapons that can use them, you can trade them. If FAL or M14 mags ever get cheap and available again, buy them, too.
That way you'll have what you need: The magazine is the most fragile, most disposable part of the battle rifle. You need lots of them, and not having them can turn a valuable tool into a poor excuse for a club.
What brand of foil should we all use for our foil hats?
theotherryan, yes, I forgot the 12gaug ammo for the Rem 870 the 1000 rounds for both the 9mm and .223 are only a start. I would like to have 5 to 10k of each before moving on the .308 and I would wont to have he .308 covered before moving on the 50cal. Depending on the terrain in the savannah's I will cap the .223 at 5k rounds and up the priority on the AR-10. I agree on the mags for the AR-10. I will need to see what the costs are when I am ready. I will buy both the rifle and the mags at the same time. The 50cal will depend an another project I am working on.
Also, does anyone know if Georgia is going to pass gun bill similar to Montana's? If so I would like to start a business in Georgia designing and building firearms and ammo for the state.
iakk
Flight-ER-Doc, I like that idea. I am inclined to go with the M14 so would be stocking mags for it also. Got a couple more pressing firearms accessories to buy (short 870 barrel and collapsible M4 butt stock)then mags for future purchases will be my priority.
12:42, No tin foil hats for me. Just wear a Kevlar helmet all the time.
Iakk, Sounds good to me. I like about 1k per pistol and shotgun and 3k per primary rifle. From what I have seen in GA it would bee very surprising if you could see enough that a .50 cal would be able to be well used. As for the .308 vs .223 that is a whole different discussion. Places in GA where you can see past 300 meters seem rare.
12:42, better give up the foil. Researchers at MIT discovered that it can amplify certain frequencies:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/
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