Recently, Dr. Gates from Harvard was arrested on a Disorderly Conduct charge. A crime most people aren't aware of, Disorderly Conduct is basically causing a disturbance. This arrest has started, what will undoubtedly be a short lived, debate. Time magazine has run a story discussing what Disorderly Conduct is, how it came to be, and its current application.
The way I look at this statute is it is designed for those people who commit criminally stupid acts. I have a Disorderly Conduct case possibly going to trial next week. This guy decides to take a walk, at night, down fairly busy street, lays down in the street, and gets in a minor tussle with the police. The guy is just a d-bag. What Disorderly Conduct charges allow police to do is maintain order. Whether this charge should be a Class A Misdemeanor is a issue, but whether this should be a crime, I think, is pretty clear. Whether Dr. Gates actions were bad enough to arrest him is also arguable (I think this arrest was a little extreme).
The issue I have with this charge is how much discretion officers normally have. I think a better system would have, in the statute, the various situations which fall under the law. For example, it could be a) causing a group of over 5 people to feel alarm, b) Obstructing traffic on a public way, c) disturbing people between the hours of midnight and 5am. This would give the police, and DAs guidance on what is Disorderly Conduct.
TOR here: I have a couple thoughts on this. Since I am on admin here they will go into the post not the comments section. Ryan and I have talked about this in the past. His opinion may have changed some in subsequent years but mine is more or less the same. Simply put I believe Cops need a fairly open ended law to deal with people who are just being total asshats. Some places call it disorderly conduct and others call it disturbing the peace. I am not a lawyer or anything but to me this is a just fine. The wide discretion Cops have with this charge is needed to deal with its open ended ness and maintain order.
Simply put it would be impossible to very specifically describe every possible stupid thing some idiot could do. A guy standing outside of a nice restaurant banging a giant dildo on the window screaming the lyrics to the Frank Sinatra tune "I did it my way" at dinner time should be politely asked to knock it the fuck off and then if he fails to comply he should be arrested. Do we need the statute to say that banging a giant dildo against the window while screaming Frank Sinatra songs is illegal to know you should not do that? I think not.
If an individual Cop gets a little too enthusiastic about arresting people for disturbing the peace odds are high that the DA will just choose not to charge the person. If a stupid case gets past the DA the Judge and Jury should take care of it. I may be mistaken but I don't think a whole lot of people are getting convicted of unjustified disorderly conduct/ disturbing the peace charges on a broad national scale.
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I'd have to side with TOR on this. Cussing anyone out in order to escalate the situation is not a good idea and the Prof should have used some common sense. I think the cop used his discretion and patience in dealing with the Prof. Some people think they're more "entitled" than others.
YeOldFurt
The cops know it will be thrown out, but they are punishing you through the hassle and expense of going to court, or having a record which could hurt your job prospects. Maybe cops should be docked money if their case is dismissed.
I've read your blog for a long time and like it, but you guys should rethink the name of your blog, because you're becoming a lot less Libertarian.
The problem with disorderly conduct is that it's completely discretionary. Anything a cop finds offensive can get you a night in jail. Sure, the DA may decide not to prosecute, but you've still spent a night in jail. And since the charge is discretionary, there's no chance for suing the cop and prevailing. How about the cop that doesn't like you handing out anti-Obama literature, tells you to stop or argues with you, and when you refuse decides that you're being disorderly? There was no underlying crime, it only became a problem because the cop decided to push things up.
Most of the things that can be dealt with via disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace can also be dealt with via enforcement of the trespassing laws. The idiot banging on the restaurant window is trespassing. The restaurant owner can ask them to leave and then call the cops or use force to defend their property. The guy laying in the road is blocking a right of way. Disorderly conduct has become "failure to pay proper respect to a cop."
The problem in the Gates situation is that the only person that was being bothered by Gates' behavior was the cop. He hadn't committed any underlying crime, he just refused to be pushed around by a cop in his own house. Was he an ass? Sure, but harsh words shouldn't be enough to get you a ride in a squad car.
Giving Johnny Law a "Go to Jail Free Card" puts too much power in the hands of government. They don't have to treat us like citizens, we're becoming the slaves of government. How dare anyone raise their voice to a cop? Off to jail you go!
Disoederly Conduct fall under Breach of the Peace. This is why LEO are also know as peace officers, because they are keepers of the peace.
Your point of view will change when You are being the one arrested....LEO's have far too much leeway....I have experience here...It ain't pretty.
It ain't fun being Tazered, stunned, Pepper sprayed, before a good application of a wood shampoo. After experiencing the LEO's at their worst in pittsburg at the grateful dead riot...
NO...amend your thinking. They attacked us and I will always think that way for the rest of my days...
You will continue to think that way until the nightstick hits you...
The charge and response should always fit the crime...Once you see a steriod enhanced franken cop in action, it will always be with you.
YeOldFurt, Thanks. Glad to have someone on my side. To be honest Prof Gates shouldn't have been an asshole and the Cop probably should have done a better job of deescalating the situation.
6:37, I suppose of a certain Cop has more than a couple disorderly conduct arrests thrown out in a given calender year disciplinary action might be in order.
BoonDoggie, Is it possible that I am a Liberterian but I think people should follow the laws we have but seek to change them. I would be interested in some sort of evidence that disorderly conduct laws are being widely abused. The idiot by the restaurant is on a public side walk. I think both parties could have acted better in the Gates affair. He should have nicely said it was a mis understanding and shown his drivers license that had that address as his home. The Cop should have been able to deescalate the situation.
Don't think it should be a 'raising your voice to a cop' charge but if you have a better idea to deal with all sorts of stupid crap people can do I am open to it.
3rdman, I agree.
Dragon, Sorry for your bad experiences. As for me personally. I try not to be a flaring asshole in public. If a Cop asks me to do something even if it is stupid I do it. Simple enough so far.
I've got to agree with BoonDoggie on this one. Both about the charge being B.S. and about you becoming a lot less libertarian.
Cops routinely use this charge when there is no real crime, but they're pissed off and want to take it out on you. They also use it to stop political protestors from protesting outside of "designated protest zones".
The charges are always dropped, but the citizen is denied his first amendment right of free speech.
And even if the charges are dropped, they remain on your record, as I found out when I tried to volunteer at my daughters school and couldn't because of a charge that was dropped 30 years ago.
11:20, Interesting perspective Thinking back to a conversation Ryan and I had well before this blog was more than just a conversation with myself. So my thoughts on this matter have not changed.
To be honest I don't think anyone fits a true party line. Maybe they are a democrat who is pro gun or a republican who is pro gay rights or a libertarian who is against legalizing hard drugs. Someone who is so mindless or brain washed that they completely toe the line is scary to me.
I am happy to learn that there who champion the rights of police to arrest people for disorderly conduct.
Let me relate what happened to me several weeks ago.
I was elected to a political office.
My opponent claimed that the election had been rigged.
He incited people to protest the elections.
Thousands of protesters took to the public streets, yelling, screaming, shouting death threats to me. They blocked traffic. They refuse to listen to the police. They created a very dangerous situation.
The police asked them to disperse.
But they refused. They continued to block traffic.
In the end the police had to arrest many of them on charges of disorderly conduct.
Many of them are now going on trial.
When the police make a request you best comply otherwise things could go badly for you.
Sincerely
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
Iranian President
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