Saturday, January 30, 2010

The Plan

Awhile back I walked about plans. Have been tracking my New Years Resolutions for awhile now. We have been talking about mid range and long term plans here at the TOR house. Codifying them onto the blog is however problematic. So much stuff depends on how long I stay on Active Duty and where we are stationed. A plan that would be practical if we lived at Ft Rilley, KS would not work in Ft Drum, NY let alone overseas. Aside from generic stuff like: working on our food storage, trying to grow some stuff, saving money, squirreling away precious metals, kit, weapons and ammo it would be difficult to make meaningful plans.

There is a plan that has been forming in our minds. This plan doesn't have a definite start point. It starts when I leave Active Duty. Not even going to get into when, how or why I might do that as there are so many factors involved including: job satisfaction, Op Tempo, family happiness, life conditions, and the economy. In any case this could be called the 'I get out' plan.

Here are a few things which shape this plan.

First a long time ago Wifey and I made an agreement that we will not live more than 45 minutes from a reasonable sized town (our definition for this is pretty modest). This was defined as something big enough to get basic services. Realistically we are going to need to live relatively close to a town of this size anyway.

That brings us to the second point. In order to live the kind of lifestyle we want and pursue our various desires we will need a decent income. Yeah yeah yeah multiple streams of income from small home businesses, etc, etc. I have read the same stuff you have. Not going to say that I don't think that idea works, just that I don't think it will work for us. We have and or will acquire the skills (still not entirely sure what we want to be when we grow up;) necessary to make a decent living in a fairly rural area.

Third it is true that some well paying gigs can be found in very rural areas. Moving out to Timbuktu, WY population 57 for a great job is a nice idea. The concern I have about a lot of them is what happens if that gig ends? You need a place where you could realistically get another comparable job. These days most workers change jobs or even careers a few times in their working life. Also while I am not sure the world is going to radically change because of 'peak oil' I do think that whatever form of energy we are using to power vehicles broadly speaking the price is going to go up, not down. The days of 75 mile one way commutes will likely be over in the not that distant future.

Also I have some serious concerns about the idea that you just telecommute to the 'good job' back in the city and can live in Timbuktu, WY. Simply put if you can do it via phone, fax and the net some guy in China or India could do the same thing for a small fraction of the cost. In general it is somewhat egotistical to think that nobody else could do what you do but in some cases it might be true. For those cases my previously mentioned concern about finding a new job still comes up. Maybe the firm of Anderson and Sullivan is perfectly happy paying you the same wage to work from home because you do good work and the boss likes you. What happens when Anderson & Sullivan closes or the boss who always looked out for you retires? Trying to convince Jenkins & Collins you are super awesome and they should hire you and let you telecommute might be difficult or impossible.

Fourth I am not fundamentally convinced that even if money wasn't an issue I would want to live in a super remote place. I don't need to be able to get pizza delivered or anything but it would be nice to be able to decide to go get pizza/ Chinese/ Mexican at 5 o'clock and eat before 7:30. Being able to go catch a movie on a weekend night when you are bored is enjoyable.

One of the parts I really like about the Inland Pacific Northwest is that while there are some reasonably sized towns there is little to no 'urban sprawl'. If you are say 30 minutes outside of Colville, WA or Lewiston, ID or Bend, OR you are out in the sticks. Admittedly finding a place that is relatively isolated but big enough to offer basic services and a big enough economy to make the 2-3 job changes that are normal is an act of compromise. It is however the best answer I can come up with.

Anyway now that those beliefs and observations are out of the way, here is the plan.

We are going to move to the Inland Pacific Northwest, probably Idaho but won't rule out the some parts of WA or OR. [Time for a tangent. Lots of folks talk about how Idaho or Montana or whatever are the best place to be. While in general I agree these places offer some real benefits there isn't a magical line of freedom and safety that matches up with any state boundaries. A guy two miles west of the Idaho state line doesn't have a fundamentally different reality than one two miles east of it. Ditto for Montana or any other state. End tangent.] We plan to purchase a reasonable fixer upper style home on a few acres. Most likely somewhat near a little town that is not too far from the kind of midsized town I talked about above. It would be off of any major highways and distinctly outside of whatever little town we are near. I would say 3-5 as a minimum, maybe a but more depending on what is available and prices. A wood stove is essential and a basement would be a big plus. We have been doing some looking and enough homes in that region have basements that finding a home which suits our needs and has one is realistic.

I would not say this is a picture perfect retreat plan. Then again a rural home in an area with a generally sparse population on enough land to have a huge garden, some chickens and pigs plus maybe a milk cow is a far better setup than most other options. I would rather have a comfortably sized place that we can easily afford and pay off at an accelerated rate than a bigger piece of land which we have to reach a bit to pay off at the scheduled rate. Maybe in a few years or a decade we would upgrade to a bigger chunk of land (if your income grows) but then again maybe we would just stay put.

Between an office/ guest room and a couple sets of bunk beds in the basement the place will be set up to comfortably house several more people. If they are not already present outbuildings will be constructed to suit our needs. In time we will set up a decent alternate power system and if it isn't already so retrofit the place to have the heat and kitchen stove to propane. This would allow us to function in a fairly normal manner during the couple of power outages a year that are the norm. My dream setup would have a spring but that is probably pushing it and would make our search much more difficult. Having a shallow enough well to run on Solar Power with a big retaining tank is a reasonable alternative that would not break the bank.

Also about the time this plan gets seriously underway the LMI and I will start changing some plans from talk into action. My co author Ryan and I have talked about this and he plans to move to the same area. We don't plan to live together like hippies in a commune but being in the same area would be nice. Chad will likely gravitate toward the same area also. We will likely have some other LMI involved who may or may not make the move. A plan of stocking up on fuel and well varied bug out routes will be figured out, probably as a group project since we tend to have interests in the same areas. Establishing some caches along said routes is likely to mitigate the issues of distance.

I am interested in any feedback or thoughts you folks have. Think part of my plan is unrealistic? Got a part you think can be improved on?

END

18 comments:

chinasyndrome said...

TOR,sounds like you have put a lot of thought in to this,and it sounds very realistic.Must be sort of frustrating be active and not being able to implement all parts of plan,however it could be a blessing in disguise,giving you plenty of time to plan,observe and implent and save.Good luck BRO.

Sgt. Jarhead said...

I too have settled on the inland Pacific North West for my future plan. As for your tangent, I agree that no state line offers a magic line for freedom. The big thing you and all your cohorts will have to figure out is what best suits your needs. The Idaho pan-handle and surrounding areas would be a great place for three or four families because it is so narrow. If you like the tax structure in Idaho, one friend likes the gun laws in Montana, and another likes something else in Washington or Oregon; you could all live relatively close to one another but still have state laws that suit each individual family's needs.

Spokane, Washington to Missoula, Montana is around 200 miles. That isn't even one tank of gas. By spreading your group out over three or four states, but remaining relatively close to one another; everyone would have more options. If SHTF in Washington, that family could cruise over to Idaho or Montana and hole-up in another family's retreat for a while. Hope that helps. Good luck!

See you at Galt's Gulch!

Degringolade said...

I kinda did what you are talking about back in '92. Moved with the Missus to Republic, Washington to work. Had a pretty good gig, but it didn't work out anyway.

We jumped in with both feet. Went and moved. But the transition from big-town to small town was greater than we thought. Everything went to hell in a handbasket. I could almost write a book about the experience (my ex has, but thats another story)

My only recommendation would be to find a job in the very general area you want to move to, in a city the size of your current situation, and then scout out the perfect place, buy it, and move to it over the period of a couple of years. That way the trasition isn't a killer.

What you want now and your current plans must be reconciled against the somewhat odd reality of living out on the edges. For most folks it takes a while to "calibrate" their dreams.

Anonymous said...

Pa had several criteria for retiring after active-duty. We planned (and did) retire near him when we came off active duty.

Within 100 miles radius from nearest large city over 50,000.

Within 100 miles from nearest large hospital (small clinics or hospitals in local area are a given)

100 miles from nearest large airport.

50 miles from nearest military base, mostly for commissary use, as it IS cheaper to shop there and some exotic stuff is always stocked. Also, the military pharmacy is free.

20 miles from nearest Walmart. Not because we shop at WM, but because where WM is, there are usually the other basic services one needs - JiffyLube, courthouse, a few good restaurants, small hospital, pharmacy, a car dealership, etc.

2 miles from nearest lake, so he could put his canoe in the water easily.

Septic, well and electric already in place.

Wooded rural lot, with little or no building codes.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...

We are 83 miles from the first 3 criteria.

We are 53 miles from the commissary.

We are 34 miles from the nearest WM and all the goods and services we need. FYI, another hospital is only 18 miles away.

We are 1 mile from the nearest lake.

Pa found a septic, well and electric, and a nice trailer on a heavily wooded lot.

Before we moved here, we installed all three and a stick-built home on our land next door, after cutting some trees on our heavily wooded lot.

There are no building codes at all. However, we built to code, so there will be no issues in the future.

Mom and Pa have been here 9 years. We've been here 4 years.

Its great.

theotherryan said...

China, Yes and no. Right now I have a stable reasonably well paid job with benefits. These days that is not a bad place to be.

Sgt Jarhead, You do make a good point about the three states boundaries being pretty close. That could work to our advantage. Thanks.

Degringolade, I would be interested in your experiences. I grew up in and around a very small town near a mid sized town. All in all not to dis similar to the kind of situation I am talking about. Also spent a few years in a small-mid sized town in the Inland PNW.

We may well get jobs in the area we want to live in and then figure out housing once we have a better lay of the land. Then again if the ideal place came up when we were moving that would work also.

irishdutchuncle said...

how did you feel about being a teacher? it's a rough job, but someone will always be needed to do it. (although with the energy situation going down hill... that might be a telecommuting job in the future too)
it might not be too bad, unless you are required to teach "evolution" or anthroprogenic "global-warming" as Truth. (as opposed to Theory)

theotherryan said...

Irishdutchuncle, I have given that some serious thought. It is one of the options that is floating around. The pay isn't great but once I pick up an MA and do it for a few years it gets OK. Also one of us being on the same schedule as the kids would be real good.

Summers off to grow an enormous garden would be nice also.

Stephanie in AR said...

Since you are considering teaching here are a few things to keep in mind.

For wifey: Do not even consider early education - too many women aim for that age frame to miss the attitude, depending on state definitions this is generally 2nd grade & younger. BUT men are highly wanted to teach in elementary years. Too many boys & not enough good father figures and such.

For TOR: Unless you want to be an atheletic coach skip history & geography majors. Those are the fields that coaches minor in - in a smaller town the local family name will get hired waaaay before you will - unless you have a degree in science or mathematics. Any degree for grades 6th and under will be good because of the man in the classroom thing.

Always wanted: Science & Math majors (though physical science is an easier study so not quite as competitive). They are shortage fields because after all the headache of graduating the $$ in private industry is better than teaching. BUT if the economy tanks bad enough a lot of laid off research & private industry will flock to teaching. Poor pay beats no pay anyday.

Other good bets: foreign language, bilingual education, and special education (though that has an *improved* label in some areas).

Once you decide on a state for permanent residence look up what the state's requirements are for certification. Sometimes a college will tack on extra classes for graduation that the state does not require. Take the classes the state requires, get graduated with something, then go get your state certificate. This straight from a College Head & school board member.

Most teaching postitions need only a bachelors to get hired - special ed/learning disabilities being an exception BUT most school boards can work around that state mandate due to shortages.

Once you have a field choosen do research into scholarship options. In shortage areas there are tons BUT many financial aid offices have no clue, you need to talk to the department at your choosen college. There are many teach a year pay off a year+ on loans (if you go that route).

Keep in mind too that just because it might be a small school district does not mean it won't have major problems. We discovered this a few years back - locals sometimes put up with a lot due to the "good ol' boy" system or family name.

Good Luck. I was once a BSE Biology/Mathematics major, teaching can be rewarding but between entitlement minded kids AND parents the gold has lost its glitter.

theotherryan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
theotherryan said...

Stephanie, A little background. I have a BA and am certified to teach K-8.

I drive my tractor in pearls... said...

Research - Research - Research

Setting up shop on land is expensive and time consuming. However, since you arent wanting to buy today (well, you may want to buy today....) holding off until this land thing shakes out, while annoying may be such a blessing in disguise.

You know these places and following your gut will probably lead you to the right decision.

I know if I had to start totally over and where family lived wasnt a consideration, I would start with the 7 states that DO NOT have a state income tax (Alaska, Washington, Florida, Texas, Wyoming, South Dakota, Nevada or the 2 that tax only dividends - Tennessee and New Hampshire (I think). I love Wyoming and South Dakota :) Im weird.

There may not be much difference in the Freedom on the other side of state lines, but there could be a huge difference in cost of living. But seeing how the 10th Amendment movement is going, there may be a HUGE difference in freedoms too :)

Cant wait to hear "the rest of the story"....

Love to know how other people had their own personal take on things :)

Pearls

theotherryan said...

Pearls, I have some time. As for taxes. I think looking at just income tax misses the big picture. Sales taxes are also an issue as is licensing, permits, etc. It gets even more complicated when you start looking at property taxes as they can vary by county. It starts to get confusing and I should probably do more research. Depending on ones income this might be a bigger factor.

The Hermit said...

The closer you are to a town, the more problems with people you will eventually have. The further out you are, the more difficult it is to get supplies, get to the doctor, etc. While I still don't want to live around people, it's getting increasingly difficult to keep all the balls in the air as I get older. I opted to drive an hour one way to work, and have been at the same office for 17 years now. If it had folded, or if I had chosen to leave it, I don't know how I would have made enough money to live comfortably. It's an "all in one basket" scenario. About all I can say , I guess, is that living as solitary an existence as you can manage is worth the downside.

Matt said...

My family and I were able to do what your planning a little over a year ago. It is possible to find a good paying job almost anywhere if you know were to look.
I work in IT and most IT jobs tend to be in big cities (and very few in rural areas). It took me a couple hundred resumes, but I was able to get a federal job position in IT at a rural research center... so I can work in IT and live in a rural area! All of my life I have wanted to have a small farm. The land prices are cheap here and I was able to get a small farm (7 acres). I planted more than 100 nut and fruit trees this fall, as well as I learned a lot in one year about the growing conditions, pests, etc.
Your response to another mentioned a teaching degree: that would be an excellent degree to have (all areas, no matter how rural,need teachers).

Stephanie in AR said...

Didn't know that (am I embarassed). I have 186 credits but no degree - too many hoops & not enough time/money. Guess my frustration at the system came through. The dream of teaching vs the reality of students, parents, school boards and governemt - well friends don't let friends jump in unprepared do they?

theotherryan said...

Stephanie, No worries.

Sgt. Jarhead said...

If you are thinking about teaching, you might want to look into a Montessori Certificate. I came across the Montessori method about a year ago, and now my kids go to a Montessori school.

You wont have to deal with the bureaucracy and bullshit of a school boards, government, and administration. It encourages parental involvement and answers to no one but the parents. Since it is alternative and private, it will be much easier to deal with. Its worth looking into.

Ben said...

WA has no income tax(yet) and OR has no sales tax(yet). If ID had no property tax you could make the perfect trifecta, but I would guess they do.

This is all based on if you are willing to cheat on taxes. In theory if you are a WA resident and shop in OR you are supposed to pay WA all the sales tax you "owe" them.

WA State Constitution does specifically protect the individuals right to keep and bear arms and the east side of the mountains normally respects that.

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