Dear TOR:
Can you give me some specific pointers on the easiest and most cost efficient way to buy American Eagles? I have tried the ebay route and (a) the auctions are very time consuming, and (b) the prices end up being 'way over spot once you calculate the shipping.
I have also contacted a couple of online sellers and they are quoting prices that are even higher over spot. And higher shipping.
Is there a way for a person to buy a coin or two at a time (or 4 or so a month) at relatively uninflated prices or am I being ridiculously naive?
Alternatively, is junk silver a better way to go? I would like to spend about $100 a month and get the most bang for the bucks.
Thanks for you advice and for your great blog.
SaddleTramp
TOR here: In order to best answer that question I will do it in 3 parts: first American Eagles, second cheap silver and third buying in small quantities.
First I will talk about American Eagles in general. They are just more expensive than normal silver. Right now they are a couple bucks an ounce more. That difference can ebb and flow but a couple bucks is fairly typical. This is partially because they are government minted and there is a sort of collectors premium. Also some folks who have a vested interest in selling them like to talk about how they are certified by the US government and such. Go figure how businesses will talk about the benefits of more expensive products. So American Eagles (and to a lesser degree Canadian Maples, Koalas, etc) pretty much always cost more than other various types of silver. As for Ebay in general unless you are bidding on large lots (say a dozen ounces or more) the cost of shipping usually negates any small savings you may get.
The cheapest small silver (as opposed huge 100 or 1,000 ounce bars) is generally one ounce bars and rounds. Unlike American Eagles lots and lots of them are made by private companies. Unlike junk 90% silver they are still in production and thus supply and demand are not working to drive up the price. Some folks really like 90% silver because it is very divisible and easy to identify. While there are some benefits to 90% junk silver IMO they are largely negated by its far higher cost. Remember that at the end of the day you are buying silver so get it at the cheapest price per ounce you can.
Now onto buying relatively small quantities of silver. This is the situation most of us are in. Folks who are cashing out some savings or just have a lot of money or whatever can make one time purchases of thousands of dollars and get huge bags of 90% silver at good prices. Right now a thousand dollars face value (about 715 ounces) of 90% silver costs about 30 cents over spot. However most folks don't have 12k lying around at one time to buy silver with, I know we don't. You can get $100 face in 90% (71.5 ounces) for sane prices also but anything smaller has a huge premium. Rolls of $10 face from APMEX a very competitive online dealer cost more like $145 for quarters and even worse $172 for dimes (that is $24 per ounce!) before delivery. Unless there is a cool local coin shop small quantities of 90% silver can not be found at a price in any relation to spot.
As you noted any decent prices found on Ebay or what not are quickly negated by shipping costs. The same can be said by making purchases of two- four ounces by various online or mail order stores. If you are paying $18.5 an ounce each for 3 silver one ounce rounds and then $15 to ship them the real cost is $23.5 each which is a bad deal. You've got to factor shipping costs into the equation.
I learned all this for myself the hard way. I have found two solutions for this problem.
The first is to find a local coin dealer with decent prices and buy from them. From most of my experiences and observations established coin dealers are a pretty honest bunch. they make their living based on people trusting that what they sell is what it is supposed to be and the precious metals world is not very big. Not saying that a bad apple can't exist or that a bad coin might not slip through an honest dealers shop unnoticed now, just that it is probably reasonable to consider established coin/ bullion dealers as honest. That being said there is a big difference between a dealer cheating people and their prices being great. The best thing that I can say is to be an informed buyer. Know right about what spot price is (knowing to to the cent isn't necessary but have a decent idea whereabouts it is at least to 50 cents or so) and what the price of a certain item like a 90% silver dime, one ounce round, etc in order to get a decent deal. If you can find a local coin dealer with reasonable prices then picking up an ounce or two of silver every pay day is simple enough.
The second option is that unless there is a place within reasonable driving distance which has decent prices you are either going to have to take a longer drive to a good coin shop (I would call ahead to make sure they will have what you want first, learned that the hard way too) or purchase via an online dealer. [FWIW I have had real positive experiences with APMEX and their prices are always competitive especially since their shipping is quite reasonable. The only affiliation I have with them is as a satisfied customer.] For these purchases in order to make your drive or shipping costs average you will want to save up and make larger less frequent purchases.
What we do is put aside a certain amount every month for precious metals. You could put money aside every week or payday or whatever, it is the same principle. Save that money up and make less frequent larger purchases. We typically make 4 or so purchases a year and generally shipping is $15 or so. This lets us greatly lower the added cost of shipping. This way instead of it adding 20-30% to the cost of a purchase it adds less than 10%.
Hope this helps some.
18 comments:
I understand wanting to get the best possible price and not wanting to get ripped off. However, I think you need to first need to ask yourself why you are buying silver in the first place?
If it's an investment then by all means make every effort humanly possible to buy low. However, if you are thinking of actually using your silver as currency if things go to hell, then current price is significantly less relevant.
Just something to keep in mind.
Great advice Tor,dollar cost averaging works well on a lot of things.A relationship with a trusted local dealer can be a real help,a couple of times I have had emergencies and needed to sell and my local dealer who is usually a tad high untill you add in shipping payed off at much better sell rate.
China
III
6:53, Personally I buy silver as a hedge against inflation and as a potential emergency currency.
I sort of disagree with you that the price doesn't matter. If the goal is to get as much potential emergency currency as possible with the limited resources I can put towards those ends, doesn't the price always matter?
Chinasymdrome, Paying a little bit more to have the convenience and relationship of a local dealer could be worth it. I do factor in shipping to the overall equation.
Good article. Not too much to disagree with. I would just say when/if you find that decent local dealer then go out of your way to establish a very friendly and honest relationship with him. You're way more likely to get an unexpected call saying, "Hey, I have something in my shop I think you'd might be interested in. I'll hold it exclusively for you." A firm handshake, a straight look in the eye, a smile, and plenty of "Thank you's" go a long way.
Sam
The silver market is very fluided. If you wait for the right price you make get left behind. I have silver that I bought at 4.00/oz and up to 17.00/oz. The shipping is not a big deal if your in it for the long haul. We are not in it to make money but to preserve our wealth if the dollar takes a dump. I do recommend buying silver rounds that are american egales or sunshine because they use the exact same silver blanks. I have made purchases from both ebay and local gold and silver dealers and have been happy with them. If you do purchase 90% silver from ebay do not purchase single coins that have a face value below .50 cents, because the shipping can be unreasonable. When I bid and purchase dimes it is always in lots of 10 or more. I also look for the ebay sell that go off late at night or during the middle of the day when most people are working. Hope this helped
3rdman, I have pretty much given up trying to time the market on gold or silver. If I could very reliably do that I would be in a different line of work. I save some money then I buys me some silver or gold, then I repeat. Sort of a dollar cost averaging of buying a few times a year no matter the market.
I am not saying that Ebay and such are bad but to just be sure and factor shipping in. Often a 'good deal' isn't so good once it actually shows up at your door.
One of the options I didn't see anyone discuss was Craigslist. I often see junk silver at good prices on Craigslist, though American Eagle coins still sell at a premium. You just have to add the cost of gas and travel time to the total price. I look for large lots of junk silver, so I'm not using too much gas per value of transaction. One of the cost cutting strategies I use is to meet sellers at a public place as close to my house as possible, thereby saving me time and gas, while providing both of us with security and anonymity.
I am lucky to have a nice coin shop near by. I purchase mostly .999 silver eagels, along with the occasional 90% silver quarter dollars and dimes.
As you do, this is a hedge agianst inflation, nothing more. I probably only do about 5-7% of a monthly check into this.
However, silver isn't the only commody I do. Ammo,food,medical,and water are also good hedges, for they are tangables.
TOR:
Keep in mind I said "Significantly less relevant" vs. irrelevant.
I understand wanting to get the most bang for your buck. My point is do something for God's sake!
Personally if I owned no silver or gold and had $100 I would buy something today! After that if you want to save and bargain hunt, go for it.
I would just guard against analysis paralysis. I got screwed on the first purchase I made (and it was a small one). However, when the lights go out and those coins are my future currency the fact that I paid $20 too much will be irrelevant.
I think we agree for the most part. I guess I am between you and 3rdman.
Great advice. With ebay, know your spot price, adjust your purchase for shipping, then make a bid that does not exceed that price per ounce. You may have to make 10 bids to win one auction, but so what? It costs you nothing but a little time.
I agree, finding a good coin shop is the very best way to go. Also check with jewelery and pawn shops as well.
I did a tutorial on buying 90% silver:
http://bisonrma.blogspot.com/2010/01/buying-90-percent-silver-coins.html
Theres a place I know that does dollar cost averaging on silver purchases. Every month you pay x dollars and receive x dollars worth of silver. Over the course of the year the price averages out and you usually wind up with a bunch of silver at an average price lower than if you had bought it in drips and drabs. You 'subscribe' and pick a day of the month, say the 15th, and a price, say $100. Every 15th they bill you $100 and send you $100 worth of silver at whatever price silver was on the 15th...then they do the same thing every month until you unsubscribe. Kind of a fire and forget way to buy silver. A person spending $200 a month last year in this manner would have had, at the end of the year, a hair under 150 ounces at an average price of $16.33.
Here's an idea that I have used a few times, and it works for me. Place an ad in the classifieds or Craigslist that says "10x face value paid for pre-1965 silver coins". You don't have to pay shipping and there is absolutely no paper trail. You won't be able to buy all you want, but even with the cost of the ad, you still come out ahead of ebay.
For example, I am willing to pay $2.50 for a quarter; according to coinflation.com the melt value of that quarter right now is $3.07.
It's not the perfect solution, but it might be worth a shot.
I've had great service from http://www.silverandgoldshop.com/. Been buying about $100 worth of silver a month for the last few months. Just a satisfied customer...
I purchase silver eagles,and find 90% silver. Got our company cashier contoller looking out for me,and give him face value for it.
So far pretty good, got about $4 dollars face value in silver pre-1964 quarters and .50 cents face value in dimes this year from him.
I buy my ASE online (APMEX) because even though the shipping is an issue I live in California so would have to pay 8.75% tax if I bought local...so it about evens out. At the moment an ASE on APMEX is 21.55 my local shop about $23/24
Hi,
I saw your post and i want to say this blog explains a few things about buying American eagle silver coin. Thank you for providing this interesting information.
Challenge Coins
I just found your blog and want to say thank you! What an enjoyable time looking
through so many blogs. Thanks for sharing.
I know im late to the party on this one just wanted to throw out a reco. I have purchased silver from two places online amazon (dont do it. too pricey) and provident metals. I get small amounts (1-5 face)of 90% for roughly 90 cents over melt value. shipping is reasonable and flat rate (about 6 bucks for orders under 100 8 bucks for orders up to 200 etc.
shipping in offset by not having to pay sales tax here in NC. Ive ordered 5 times and every order was here with in a week. Once it was a week on the nose.
This is just my personal experience with one company. Im sure others out there a comparable. I have not felt the need to order from others b/c I cant really see a transaction being any smother or cost effective.
btw prices are cash prices orders by CC are 3% more. Buy you receive your order faster by about a week. This is generally the route I take
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