Sam asked... I agree in having lots of magazines, but what do you think of fewer mags and lots of spare mag springs and followers? This means less cost and less storage space of course and it is another way we might reduce our prepping costs.
[To recap I personally like to have 20 magazines for a defensive rifle and 10 for a defensive pistol. These are minimums PER GUN. Less for non core weapons, hunters, plinkers, etc]
To answer Sam's question we need to discuss the reasons for storing extra magazines.
If you are reading this blog I probably don't have to make a hard sell as to why you would want to keep a stock of magazines. Fundamentally they are a semi disposable item that are essential for the full operation of firearms. Without a magazine a semi automatic weapon is an awkward single shot. They are useful for all kinds of nasty survivalist scenarios. It is prudent to be prepared in case of some kind of future ban on politically incorrect magazines. This has happened in the past, most notably from 1994-2004. I know a guy who paid $160+ in 1990's dollars per magazine for some stuff he was caught short on. Also magazines in general and particularly military surplus type magazines can decrease in availability over time and prices of mags are not going down any time soon.
Now let us look at the reasons we might find ourselves raiding the stash of magazines we have to supliment those in our general load out. The first would be to replace magazines that we have been using which are no longer servicable. A mag wears out or breaks and needs to be replaced. Mags can wear out of break in a variety of ways. Springs can wear out and feed lips can be damaged or work beyond use. Bottom plates or mag bodies can break. My anecdotal observations show that rifle magazines usually fail by worn/ damaged feed lips or worn out springs and for pistols it is usually springs or mag bodies.
The next would be replacing magazines that are lost or misplaced. In fights or tough realistic training that require reloads magazines can get lost. Maybe you can't conveniently put a mag into a pouch or pocket or they fall out and either you can't come back and look or they get lost in the brush. Occasionally a mag could be left at the range or whatever. These things don't happen a lot but they do happen. For me the culprit has been misplacing magazines. A mag gets put in a backpack or a drawer or whatever and gets forgotten about. Once I was moving and emptied out a closet to find aproximately 15 magazines and 500 rounds of ammo. If you only have a few magazines, particularly in an environment where they are difficult or impossible to replace this sort of thing could be devastating. If you have a healthy stock of magazines it is just mindly inconvenient.
The last reason would be the all encompasing "other". Other could be deciding that you want to carry four magazines instead of two. It could also mean deciding that you want to keep some loaded mags in the car or at some alternate location. Maybe you have a friend (who uses a compatible gun because you are smart folks) is caught at your place and things get hairy or they don't quite do the best job of preparing and need a hand.
So back to the question at hand what you think of fewer mags and lots of spare mag springs and followers? No, I don't really recommend fewer magazines and lots of springs and followers (on a tangent I have never seen the actual follower really fail). The numbers I recommend are what I decided were good based on my experience and overall situation. They are what I personally use. Buying a lot of mags sucks, even relatively common and inexpensive ones add up in cost fast but it beats getting caught short.
That being said I suppose one could reasonably decide to get a couple fewer magazines and store some spare springs as long as it doesn't get too extreme. If you get maybe get seven pistol mags and 14/ 15 rifle mags and keep some springs around that would probably work. However I certainly wouldn't suggest only having three pistol mags and eight rifle mags with extra springs. The reason is that spare springs really only cover you if the spring on a magazine wears out, not if other parts wear out/ break or the whole thing gets lost. Also extra springs do not equal extra magazines. Furthermore low levels like that would make you too vulnerable to the damage or loss of a single magazine and give little ability to have a heavier load out or cross level/ trade magazines as needed.
I hope that answers the question or at least gives you something to think about.
Thoughts?
10 comments:
I agree with your thought regarding magazines. I'm about at your recommended level of supply. I store my magazines with the applicable ammunition to make things simplier.
What are your thoughts on storing the magazines loaded? I've heard comments both ways, but I'd be interested in your opinion.
MAJ Mike
I'm not Ryan (although apparently we're both charming, handsome, devilish geniuses....but I store a lot of magazines loaded, often for lengthy periods of time, with no detrimental effect.
I suppose if I was a "gear queer" with a bunch of "safe queens" I never fired, and my magazines were going to sit loaded on a shelf for the next thirty years, I'd leave them unloaded, but my basic load of magazines (currently 11 rifle magazines and 3 pistol magazines, remain loaded. I generally shoot two to three magazines worth per weekly range visit, then immediately refill them, cycling through my entire basic load of mags (a mix of PMAGs and GI mags) over the course of a month or so. I also keep a couple of mags loaded in my go-bag/3rd line gear that are seldom, if ever fired, to no noticeable detrimental effect.
I think, once upon a time, this MIGHT have been an issue, but with current metallurgy, I think the concerns are largely hyperbole...or safe queen guns that never actually get fired....
ND,
JM
MAJ Mike, Personally I keep a few magazines loaded. Typically about 3 for my primary pistol and rifle.
In hindsight I answered this question poorly. Personally I keep as many mags loaded as I feel like I would need in a hurry.
Interestingly I recently left a PMAG and a GI AR mag (one of those new tan/ orangish follower ones) loaded for a few days short of a year as an experiment, there was no detrimental effect. In the past I have left Glock and Ruger 10/22 magazines loaded for a long time (didn't exactly keep track but more than several months) with no detriment.
If the time we are talking about measures in months instead of years it is probably just fine. Rotate them at the range or when you change the clocks for daylight savings time.
Your comments go along with my experience. I tend to use my loaded/stored magazines when I undergo "range therapy". I then load up previously unused magazines. Probably a bit OCD, but I always weigh the experience of others.
Thanks John and Ryan for your advice.
MAJ Mike
Ryan, I do not have, nor will I claim massive experience. That said:
My daily carry is a Glock19. Mag capacity is 15. I have it downloaded to 12 on an ongoing basis. 2 spare mags loaded the same. So I carry 36 rounds at any time and have more in my vehicle just in case. I only have 5 mags for this pistol but am always in the market for more. I also have a G34 in a range bag with 5 mags all down loaded by three. By downloading by just a few rounds, you are not maxing the spring compression. So far, no problems.
I have 8 30rd mags for my AR. all these are loaded to 25 and kept in a dedicated bag for the AR. I also have several lower cap mags, downloaded a few, in another bag nearby. In my situation/location I do not expect an emergency bug out but can grab and go on short notice with more than a little firepower.
On the question of mag parts, why not? A few parts kits are a good idea. So long as you have a good number of mags, some parts to keep them going is not a waste of money. However, all the parts kits will do no good if you loose the 2 mags you have. I'm not a 'one or the other' kind guy but more of an 'all the above'
Take care and God Bless,
DesertRatJak
DesertRatJak, As to downloading magazines (loading them with fewer rounds). I have used AR's and Glocks a lot with fully loaded mags and never had issues. However other than a couple fewer bullets I don't see any harm, especially as both guns have a decent capacity.
On to the question of mag parts. If it is a good to have some springs and a couple followers is a very different question than if I think keeping extra springs means you don't need as many magazines. Having springs is certainly not a bad idea. I have some spare springs lying around for everything important. At some point, if I ever get that far down the list, it would be nice to have a spare spring for every 1-2 magazines or so.
while there's nothing inherently wrong with storing spare parts, I don't see the need, since the biggest issue with mags going bad is bent feed lips, all the spare springs and followers in the world aren't going to help...
As far as downloading magazines....it's really pretty much totally pointless...unless you're too weak to slam a fully-loaded mag home on a closed bolt...I've loaded my rifle mags with a full load (Hell, more than once I've managed to cram 31 rounds into a 30-round mag!) since I was a private, Lo these many years ago, and I've NEVER had a problem with it. On the other hand, why limit your magazine capacity? The weapon, and the magazines, were engineered for 30 rounds....
ND,
JM
Ryan and J. Mosby, I must not have been too clear. When talking about 'downloading' my mags, I was talking about storage. If I am using them, (range time and/or specific training), I have no problem going full load. When done at the range and I do not know when I will go to the range again, ( I never get to go as often as I would like.),then the mags are downloaded for storage. If I have not used a mag for 6 mos. and I need to 'grab-n-go', I know that spring has not been collapsed to the max all that time. It may or may not cause the spring to weaken but why take the chance.
No flame wars, just clarifying.
Good points Ryan, thanks.
I keep a stock of spare parts for all my guns, those parts most likely to break, wear or get lost.
I bought a bunch of (thoroughly) used M16 30 round mags with old (black) and worn followers. I replaced the followers and springs after a thorough cleaning and now they work great. I was thinking, come SHTF, I might have to do that again. BUT, I think I'll get some more mags.
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