The last time revolvers were mentioned here things got about as unpleasant as they have in a long time. I had planned to write this post in the days following that one but didn't feel like dealing with any drama. The funny and ironic thing about this is that I like revolvers. In fact we have more .38/.357 revolvers than any other single type of gun.
Revolvers are well what they are. Very arguably the revolver market has been static for a long time. Aside from fluff and finishes there hasn't been anything new that was meaningful (and caught on) for a long time. Like decades. Typically revolvers hold 5-7 rounds and have barrels between 2 and 6 inches. There are numerous calibers but for defensive purposes zeroing in on .38/.357 and briefely touching .44 mag is probably sufficient.
The two biggest disadvantages revolvers have are that they do not hold a lot of bullets and are slow to reload. Unfortunately the second issue seriously compounds the first. As to their advantages wheel guns are unbiquous, easy to use, affordable and more tolerant of varied ammunition than auto's. The reason I say revolvers are easier to use is that the failure drill is to pull the trigger again. If the gun doesn't shoot a second time it is empty (either you shot it that way or forgot to load it) or broken beyond immediate repair. Now in fairness revolvers can and do break and auto's are typically easier to repair.
Comparing revolvers to auto's in terms of a defensive tool is sort of pointless. Auto's hold considerably more ammunition and reload faster. That being said revolver folks will argue some points they believe make the wheel gun superior. I don't feel like arguing but must observe that you don't see many folks who carry a gun for a living with wheel guns these days.
Arguing that a revolver is equal to or better than an automatic is the wrong argument anyway. The real question is if revolvers are good enough to defend ones self with. For goodness sake don't say that revolvers were good enough for years and use that as your sole point. Swords were good enough for years too but you don't see many of them these days with good reason. As to this more important question I suppose the answer is probably. Then again you are probably fine without a gun anyway.
The answer to this question is probably. You would have to be in the more unlikely end of the already unlikely violent conflict spectrum for the difference between an auto and a wheel gun to matter. If that happened and you had a wheel gun, well that would be bad but is statistically unlikely.
If your primary concern is a single goblin with an edged or blunt weapon, or maybe a gun, attacking you.
As to snubbies in particular as the snubby didn't seem to need it's own post. The same issues above both good and bad are present with snubbies except they have the additional disadvantage that they are a very difficult gun to shoot. For most folks they are probably good to across the room distances. Note that I did not say they are mechanically inaccurate but that most folks can't hit squat with them. This is more of an issue because they don't hold a lot of bullets, most hold 5. A tech 9 is not accurate but they hold a lot of bullets so, if you do not care about collateral damage, the odds of getting a hit are decent.
[If anybody has a bunch of money to take snubby .38's to a bunch of ranges with free amo for people to shoot and keep track of the ammo it would be interesting. I suspect few people would do well past about 10 meters and almost none would hit squat at 20. Considering these are ideal conditions and that stress and movement deteriorate accuracy considerably it could easily mean not hitting squat. ]
To touch briefly on caliber .38 special is perfectly adequate and .357 magnum is an oldie but a goodie. Bigger guns like .44's have power to spare though they are typically big enough be difficult to conceal without a vest (which screams gun unless you have a big camera around your neck) or coat and in terms of defensive use outside of the isolated hinterboonies fall in the 'left in the truck' category.
One of the biggest things working against the snubby is that concealable semi automatic pistols have come a long way in the last 20 years. Between the slightly larger than snubby slew of quality compact pistols from Glock, S&W, Springfield, HK and pretty much every other major manufacturer manufacturer and the new much smaller than snubby .380's like the KelTech, and all it's knock offs as well as the S&W Bodyguard the nitche of the snubby could be questioned. One might argue it is literally surrounded by better options. They do however have one unique advantage. You can load the same caliber of ammo in a snubby .38/.357 for carry and a big .357 for house and field use. For somebody who really wants to keep it simple in terms of logistics that is a benefit.
Personally I have a snubby .38 (and the wife has another which is a whole different discussion). This gun was purchased when I realized the full sized handguns I owned weren't getting carried much. I could slip it into an IWB holster and it vanished under a loose shirt. This gun got shelved for carry when I bought a Glock 19. I laid the snubby on top of the Glock 19 and while the snubby was smaller it was just by a tiny bit. The .38 was wider though the bigger grip (due to the mag) of the Glock printed a little bit more. I decided very quickly that having 3x more bullets in a much easier to shoot package was worth a tiny bit of printing.
While it is unlikely that the difference between a snubby .38 and a Glock 19 will ever matter for me I would rather be safe then sorry. It isn't much more gun to carry for the huge difference in capabilities. Within reason there is always a trade off between more or less gun so finding your own happy spot is important. A Glock 19 is something I will carry regularly.
There is still a soft spot in my heart for revolvers. I like collecting and shooting them. For practical use I especially like them for the great outdoors. A gun that you can affordably plink with as well as kill mountain lions, black bear and snakes is a nice thing to have. Also they are cheap. Unless you are married to the newest tacticool (kinda ironic for wheelguns anyway) models it is easy to get good guns priced in the mid 300's (or was a 3 years back anyway). Revolvers are nice for a gun to stash here or there because of their affordable price. I can't afford to have a Glock back in the PNW, another stashed at a 'campsite' and a third someplace else in addition to the guns I normally use. For the price of a new AR or many models of semi automatic pistol I could do this with good used .38/.357 revolvers.
Anyway those are my thoughts on that. Flame on.
Edited to include: Commander Zero's post on Revolvers at Cheaper than Dirt is also worth reading.
Revolvers are well what they are. Very arguably the revolver market has been static for a long time. Aside from fluff and finishes there hasn't been anything new that was meaningful (and caught on) for a long time. Like decades. Typically revolvers hold 5-7 rounds and have barrels between 2 and 6 inches. There are numerous calibers but for defensive purposes zeroing in on .38/.357 and briefely touching .44 mag is probably sufficient.
The two biggest disadvantages revolvers have are that they do not hold a lot of bullets and are slow to reload. Unfortunately the second issue seriously compounds the first. As to their advantages wheel guns are unbiquous, easy to use, affordable and more tolerant of varied ammunition than auto's. The reason I say revolvers are easier to use is that the failure drill is to pull the trigger again. If the gun doesn't shoot a second time it is empty (either you shot it that way or forgot to load it) or broken beyond immediate repair. Now in fairness revolvers can and do break and auto's are typically easier to repair.
Comparing revolvers to auto's in terms of a defensive tool is sort of pointless. Auto's hold considerably more ammunition and reload faster. That being said revolver folks will argue some points they believe make the wheel gun superior. I don't feel like arguing but must observe that you don't see many folks who carry a gun for a living with wheel guns these days.
Arguing that a revolver is equal to or better than an automatic is the wrong argument anyway. The real question is if revolvers are good enough to defend ones self with. For goodness sake don't say that revolvers were good enough for years and use that as your sole point. Swords were good enough for years too but you don't see many of them these days with good reason. As to this more important question I suppose the answer is probably. Then again you are probably fine without a gun anyway.
The answer to this question is probably. You would have to be in the more unlikely end of the already unlikely violent conflict spectrum for the difference between an auto and a wheel gun to matter. If that happened and you had a wheel gun, well that would be bad but is statistically unlikely.
If your primary concern is a single goblin with an edged or blunt weapon, or maybe a gun, attacking you.
As to snubbies in particular as the snubby didn't seem to need it's own post. The same issues above both good and bad are present with snubbies except they have the additional disadvantage that they are a very difficult gun to shoot. For most folks they are probably good to across the room distances. Note that I did not say they are mechanically inaccurate but that most folks can't hit squat with them. This is more of an issue because they don't hold a lot of bullets, most hold 5. A tech 9 is not accurate but they hold a lot of bullets so, if you do not care about collateral damage, the odds of getting a hit are decent.
[If anybody has a bunch of money to take snubby .38's to a bunch of ranges with free amo for people to shoot and keep track of the ammo it would be interesting. I suspect few people would do well past about 10 meters and almost none would hit squat at 20. Considering these are ideal conditions and that stress and movement deteriorate accuracy considerably it could easily mean not hitting squat. ]
To touch briefly on caliber .38 special is perfectly adequate and .357 magnum is an oldie but a goodie. Bigger guns like .44's have power to spare though they are typically big enough be difficult to conceal without a vest (which screams gun unless you have a big camera around your neck) or coat and in terms of defensive use outside of the isolated hinterboonies fall in the 'left in the truck' category.
One of the biggest things working against the snubby is that concealable semi automatic pistols have come a long way in the last 20 years. Between the slightly larger than snubby slew of quality compact pistols from Glock, S&W, Springfield, HK and pretty much every other major manufacturer manufacturer and the new much smaller than snubby .380's like the KelTech, and all it's knock offs as well as the S&W Bodyguard the nitche of the snubby could be questioned. One might argue it is literally surrounded by better options. They do however have one unique advantage. You can load the same caliber of ammo in a snubby .38/.357 for carry and a big .357 for house and field use. For somebody who really wants to keep it simple in terms of logistics that is a benefit.
Personally I have a snubby .38 (and the wife has another which is a whole different discussion). This gun was purchased when I realized the full sized handguns I owned weren't getting carried much. I could slip it into an IWB holster and it vanished under a loose shirt. This gun got shelved for carry when I bought a Glock 19. I laid the snubby on top of the Glock 19 and while the snubby was smaller it was just by a tiny bit. The .38 was wider though the bigger grip (due to the mag) of the Glock printed a little bit more. I decided very quickly that having 3x more bullets in a much easier to shoot package was worth a tiny bit of printing.
While it is unlikely that the difference between a snubby .38 and a Glock 19 will ever matter for me I would rather be safe then sorry. It isn't much more gun to carry for the huge difference in capabilities. Within reason there is always a trade off between more or less gun so finding your own happy spot is important. A Glock 19 is something I will carry regularly.
There is still a soft spot in my heart for revolvers. I like collecting and shooting them. For practical use I especially like them for the great outdoors. A gun that you can affordably plink with as well as kill mountain lions, black bear and snakes is a nice thing to have. Also they are cheap. Unless you are married to the newest tacticool (kinda ironic for wheelguns anyway) models it is easy to get good guns priced in the mid 300's (or was a 3 years back anyway). Revolvers are nice for a gun to stash here or there because of their affordable price. I can't afford to have a Glock back in the PNW, another stashed at a 'campsite' and a third someplace else in addition to the guns I normally use. For the price of a new AR or many models of semi automatic pistol I could do this with good used .38/.357 revolvers.
Anyway those are my thoughts on that. Flame on.
Edited to include: Commander Zero's post on Revolvers at Cheaper than Dirt is also worth reading.
11 comments:
Well, not to blow my own...horn, but:
http://cheaperthandirtcom.blogspot.com/2010/03/guest-post-commander-zero-on-revolvers.html
Zero, Interestingly I meant to link to that article but didn't get around to it.
And while nodding appropriately at all your well-considered points as a fellow pistol shooter...
It'll be a cold day in hell when I give up my .357
Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg
With everything that is out there I still carry my S&W airlite 357 on most occasions over a couple other semi autos I have. Light, simple, powerful, and reliable. But you have to practice with speed loaders or moon clips and actually carry them with you.
I gave up on the 357 (kind of an explosion in your hand) and moved on to the 41 Mag. which I like better. I have a 44 Mag too but in the woods where I might need protection from claws or fangs I'll take one of my 41s.
TJ
A revolver is probably the most handy weapon to carry around today.Its compact and light weight as compared to the larger guns.
I'm an old fart and frankly can't get past the 1911, but my Browning Hi Power holds more boolets so most of the time I end up carrying it IWB instead. Having said that, I also have one of the little Kahr 9mm's and find much to recommend it over my 5-shot Smith. Flatter, thinner, carries more boolets and has been 100% reliable with a variety of premium ammunition as well as the Winchester Ranger that seems to be in wide use by LE.
If one must carry a small revolver, the old-model Colt Detective Special holds 6-shots and is not all that much larger than the 5-shot guns.
H
I like .38 Special snubbies too but I'll pass on .357 when shot in them - too much power for me! HP bullets in the .38 should get it done.
One .44 'sort of snubbie' you might keep an eye out for is the Charter Arms Bulldog. I have an old 3" barreled original 70's vintage model and it compares very well with the .38 Undercover made by same company. The .44 bore when seen from front is scary as hell!
I load a CCI snake load in front, than 4 - 200 grain HP factory loads, its a great belt gun when in the rurals.
Major plus for revolvers, especially DA - very easy to teach new shooters to use. No safety's or buttons to use, no slides to rack and make sure is fully closed, snap in the cylinder (or close the loading gate in SAs) and you are ready to go. Great for night stand gun.
Major problem with revolvers - the NIB modern factory prices are frickin' ridiculous in price. I'm old though, so just count me as a cheap old bastard, lol.
Good post - glad you revisited.
Good comments on the snubbies/revolvers. I have to admit that they have a special place on my side or in my pocket from time to time, too.
grasshoppa
Every woodsman worth his salt carries a revolver, usually a 357 or 44.
I'm always a little amused by all this tall of reloading speed. Unless you are highly trained and have actually experienced a few gun battles, you're going to be so full of adrenaline that you won't be able to use your fine motor skills for a reload. So I guess that is an argument against wheel guns.
Good comments on the snubbies/revolvers. I have to admit that they have a special place on my side or in my pocket from time to time, too. grasshoppa
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