-People have been living in groups for as long as there have been people. Groups are much stronger than individuals. Also they allow for support when you get sick or injured or whatever.
-In the context of survivalism you could arguably break groups down into naturally occuring and intentional. The naturally occuring groups come from families, churches, groups of friends, etc that for whatever reason are spurred to become survivalists. The intentional groups are survivalists who in whatever way find eachother and seek to form groups with like minded individuals.
-It seems like both type of groups have advantages and disadvantages.
-Naturally occuring groups have the benefit of being made up of people you know and trust. This is huge to me. Maybe I have trust issues. However some folks seem to have shared information and trusted their lives based on relationships that to me are not sufficient for somebody to borrow my car, let alone watch Walker.
-On the downside in naturally occuring groups you have to deal with varied levels of motivation, skills and logistical stockpiles (or lack theiron) of folks you know. Getting somebody to take the leap from planning to come together in a bad scenario to implimenting a vigerous PT program, regularly conducting intentional training, building skills and stockpiling beans, bullets and bandaids is hard.
-Intentional groups of folks without a long background have the advantage that you can pick and choose. Find a mechanic if you need one or whatever. Also motivation and getting folks acting should be less of an issue than with naturally occuring groups.
-On the downside there is the trust issue. I talked about this a long time ago, beware there are dirty words that may offend some peoples fragile feelings. Also I seriously wonder about folks who plan to abandon their family and friends to throw in with a bunch of strangers. This sort of plan vastly underestimates the bonds and obligations that people have to family and good friends. Unless everybody involved is an orphan or their family lives thousands of miles away I suspect strap hanging family will be a serious issue for this sort of group. [ Any sort of group will need to have brutally harsh conversations about how to deal with this issue. Figuring out if you can/ how to feed and shelter people we love that can't or more realistically won't prepare for theirselves is a complicated topic. They would also be an issue for naturally occuring groups but since they tend to be family and friends anyway at least you are dealing with fewer families.]
-As to leadership and such I think naturally occuring groups have an advantage. Maybe there is already a Patriarch and things are simple or in other cases previously existing relationships have largely sorted theirselves out. Intentional groups seem inherantly full of chiefs and short of indians.
Anyway I am interested in what has worked well or poorly for you. Please let me know in the comments section.
-In the context of survivalism you could arguably break groups down into naturally occuring and intentional. The naturally occuring groups come from families, churches, groups of friends, etc that for whatever reason are spurred to become survivalists. The intentional groups are survivalists who in whatever way find eachother and seek to form groups with like minded individuals.
-It seems like both type of groups have advantages and disadvantages.
-Naturally occuring groups have the benefit of being made up of people you know and trust. This is huge to me. Maybe I have trust issues. However some folks seem to have shared information and trusted their lives based on relationships that to me are not sufficient for somebody to borrow my car, let alone watch Walker.
-On the downside in naturally occuring groups you have to deal with varied levels of motivation, skills and logistical stockpiles (or lack theiron) of folks you know. Getting somebody to take the leap from planning to come together in a bad scenario to implimenting a vigerous PT program, regularly conducting intentional training, building skills and stockpiling beans, bullets and bandaids is hard.
-Intentional groups of folks without a long background have the advantage that you can pick and choose. Find a mechanic if you need one or whatever. Also motivation and getting folks acting should be less of an issue than with naturally occuring groups.
-On the downside there is the trust issue. I talked about this a long time ago, beware there are dirty words that may offend some peoples fragile feelings. Also I seriously wonder about folks who plan to abandon their family and friends to throw in with a bunch of strangers. This sort of plan vastly underestimates the bonds and obligations that people have to family and good friends. Unless everybody involved is an orphan or their family lives thousands of miles away I suspect strap hanging family will be a serious issue for this sort of group. [ Any sort of group will need to have brutally harsh conversations about how to deal with this issue. Figuring out if you can/ how to feed and shelter people we love that can't or more realistically won't prepare for theirselves is a complicated topic. They would also be an issue for naturally occuring groups but since they tend to be family and friends anyway at least you are dealing with fewer families.]
-As to leadership and such I think naturally occuring groups have an advantage. Maybe there is already a Patriarch and things are simple or in other cases previously existing relationships have largely sorted theirselves out. Intentional groups seem inherantly full of chiefs and short of indians.
Anyway I am interested in what has worked well or poorly for you. Please let me know in the comments section.
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9 comments:
And thus "tribes" were born.
History isn't a line. It's a circle.
Ryan excellent observations. I'll go along wiht you one the point that people who walk away form their family in a crisis present a problem. I'm not comfortable with anyone that can nonchalantly ignore the biological imperative to protect family during a crisis. IMHO it's an indicator of some sort of sociopathic behavior - after all if their family can't depend on them what would make anyone else think they could?
From what I've seen the strongest groups are those with the kind of bonds you identified - familial, geographic (neighbors - especially in my kind of setting), etc. Leaders? From what I've seen the folks that posses that trait will rise to the occasion given the correct circumstances and those that do it for purely megalomaniacal reasons are soon outed. Keep it up - ya got a great blog.
Treaded, Either a psycho or they show up with friends and family when it matters. Those friends and family might have their hands out asking or could be armed and not asking. Any way you cut it is bad.
Geography, especially in places where people don't move often or land stays in families definitely fit into the natural group category.
Thanks for the kind words,
Ryan
6:15, "History doesn't repeat itself, but it sure rhymes".
Yes, we will quickly form tribes, or die. In a tribal circumstance, from Africa to the Great Plains, there was a chief, but also a council of elders. In a post-collapse, there will be the same structure.
Naturally occurring groups already compensate for the weaknesses within their groups without really having to put much thought into it. If Group member A is really good with animals, then he/she works with animals. If group member B does not have the physical strength to cut wood or carry heavy loads, they do the smaller, lighter chores.
Even selected groups trust will not be an issue for long. It is much like the military. You will build trust quickly because your survival depends on your group members. You voluntarily joined (as did others) to achieve a goal: survival. That is a good common ground, IMO.
Humans, especially groups of humans, adapt quickly to their environments. Those that did not, became extinct humans.
We are the culmination of the survivors. Our ancestors did not lay down in defeat, they made the losers do that. Survival is our birthright, regardless of the kind of group we are members of, we have the drive, and the ability to survive. We just need to cultivate some skills and knowledge that has been set aside in the past 100 years of "civilization".
Ryan good point - I made a similar observation in my OPSEC piece.
It's sad but a reality about geographical familiarity is that a lot of young folks are leaving the rural areas to pursue less ag related lives and careers. When I returned it was almost impossible to find land for sale in any quantity near where I grew up. Lots of small (5 acre) parcels but I had to really wheel and deal to get what we have. Most of it had been sold off in small parcels by family members that had inherited it. I don't see a huge reversal to that trend.
Falcon15, If an intentional/ selected group were to get into a full on mad max scenario and everybody shows up at the retreat like they planned without bringing a bunch of friends/ family and none of them do anything crazy like raid the place or whatever and a couple months go by then yes; I think those groups would develop trust if just because it is in their best interest to survive.
Note how that statement has a whole lot of 'if's'.
As always YMMV.
Tredaed, Unfortunately I have to agree. The economics of small scale agriculture relegate it to a hobby in most situations. Note that is the best case scenario if you own the land free and clear.
Additionally in most places where normal folks can afford some acreage jobs are few and far between.
Believe me, if I could make it work I would be living on a nice piece of land right now!
Yup brother - it takes cash. In my case I cashed out killed off my 401k (and suffered the penalty) to buy the ranch and cattle. So far I've done well and made above the median income from fall cattle sales. If worst comes to worst at least I can eat my product ;)
It's possible but it takes some careful planning, some measured risks, and maybe even a little gamble.
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