Craig asked the question and I realized my response is going to be longer than a comment so it will be a post. First I asked what his budget is and the response was about $500 though $400 would be better. [As noted yesterday it is important to really be honest with yourself about what you can afford. If you are going to be able to pull together some cash, even $20-30 a shot within a reasonable period of time; then you can spend most of your wad on the gun and pick up more ammo, mags/ speed loaders/etc over a couple months or whatever. On the other hand if you know money is going to be tight for the foreseeable future then you need to look at a system (gun, holster(s), mags/ speed loaders/ speed strips, ammo) that fits within the budget.]
I do hate to go down the "just one anything" rabbit hole. However if a person can only afford one rifle/pistol/shotgun/22 for the foreseeable future that is sometimes that is where we find ourselves. Craig has a single action .22 revolver but those are really plinking/ small game guns. So we are at the one pistol question.
I think a few key things are important to talk before going into specific models:
Common calibers are common for a reason. Buy a 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45ACP in auto's or a .38 special/ .357 Magnum in revolvers, maybe .44 Special/ Mag if you need bear medicine. I don't plan to argue other calibers though I know some are almost as common as the ones I listed.
Use a caliber sufficient for your task at hand. For a primary defensive pistol (vs a hideout) I would not purchase a weapon smaller than 9mm or .38 special. Folks may look at this differently as is their right. Of course a dangerous game gun needs more power. However this is where you have to make choices. A .44mag or 10mm or whatever small enough and light enough for most people to regularly conceal is not one I would want to shoot more than once. Again people may look at things differently.
Common models and calibers are common for a reason. There are oddballs still but that is mostly about personal preference and use. On the other hand some no name one year run guns are great, however some of them are not. This also runs into parts, magazine and accessory availability.
Of course what you are going to do (as well as your build and budget) matters. A pistol that is going to live in the house or truck can be as big as you want. A pistol carried for bear protection should have a round sufficient for those tasks. That being said I think that once a few really rural folks are factored out the answers are pretty similar for most people.
That being said I think it is important for a single pistol scenario to keep an eye toward concealed carry. A pistol you can't reasonably conceal fails at its primary job, being the gun you can have all the time. Maybe you do not want to carry today but there could be a crime wave or a disaster or whatever that changes your mind.
Now onto specific models.
Personally I recommend the Glock 19 to Craig or pretty much anybody looking for a good all around pistol. In my opinion (and a lot of other much smarter people's) it strikes a great compromise between the shootability and round count of a service sized handgun and the conceal ability of a smaller pistol. Personally I can conceal one easily wearing cargo shorts and a polo or light short sleeved button up shirt. Also they are as (or more) reliable than any competitor and are one of the most common pistols out there which means parts/ mags/ accessories are more available than most if not all competitors. Any place that sells ammo has 9mm and any place that has gun stuff has Glock stuff. Also the Glock offers a lot of gun for your money. You can buy the service pistol which is arguably the standard all others are judged by for somewhere between $400-500 bucks. That being said I can see how reasonable people may differ.
It is worth noting that everything I said about the Glock could be said about the Springfield XD or Smith and Wesson MP series. The only exception is that they are slightly less common than Glocks if just because they are fairly new to the market. Due to this they have fewer mags/ parts/ accessories floating around though maybe not enough to matter,.
If you want more power .40 S&W is a good answer. Not necessary but if it makes you happy then rock on. It is a darn good round though a bit more expensive to shoot than 9mm. Also it is snappy or maybe even unpleasant in smaller/ lighter pistols.
Personally I would be inclined to stick with a double stack magazine. Yeah they are thicker but the trade off is a whole bunch more bullets. For reference a Glock 19 holds 15 plus 1 in the pipe while single stack compact 9mm's will usually hold 6 or 7 plus 1. Personally I am not so sure it is a trade off I would be willing to make. Then again you could argue these new subcompact/ compact single stack 9's (and .40's) like the Keltech, S&W Shield, Ruger LC9 and (though not new really) various Kahr's are in competition not with double stack compact 9mm's but with subcompact single stack .380's I would say a 9 beats a .380 any day, especially if the size and weight are close.
As to revolvers for an all around gun I would get a 3" .357 magnum like a Ruger SP 101 or whatever model S&W is comparable. Snubby revolvers are difficult to shoot well and as such IMO not a good all around choice. On the other end of the spectrum a large framed .357 Magnum like a S&W Model 19 or Ruger GP 100 is a great pistol but probably too big for concealed carry without a coat. While a snubby .357 to carry and a 4 or 6 inch wheel gun for the house/ field is a good combo neither stand alone all that well so we are left with the 3".
For Craigs specific situation:
Do not get a pocket pistol for your only pistol. A tiny .380 is a great little carry piece to have as part of your battery if you have other pistol(s) to use as a house gun or for other defensive purposes. As a
If a Glock 19 is not a viable option I would look at the Keltech PF 9. Personally I do not have any experience with this pistol but NutnFancy seems to like them which is a pretty solid endorsement. Also since the cost is around $250-300 that really helps in the cash area. You could probably get a PF 9, a holster, an extra set of magazines, a couple boxes of 9mm defensive ammo and a few boxes or maybe even 500 rounds of 9mm FMJ to stash away for around $500.
The PF 9 is certainly small enough to carry regularly in fairly light summer clothing. They are single stack so the round count is low but there is the trade off to thinness/ concealability. Sure there are probably some downsides but for a new $250-300 semi automatic pistol that is to be expected, you can't have everything.
To be honest I am pondering a potential role one might have in my battery. Though I have to see one side by side with a Glock 19 to really compare them.
Regardless of the specific pistol I would recommend a corrosion resistant finish for those who will be in and around water, doubly so if it is salt water. This means stainless steel or a tough finish like Tenifer or something comparable. I would not purchase a blued gun, it is just asking for problems.
Anyway those are my thoughts on that. Simply put buy a Glock 19 and everything will be alright. If for whatever foolish reason you decide not to buy a Glock 19 I hope we have hit on some things for you to consider. I think the comments section could get fun.
I do hate to go down the "just one anything" rabbit hole. However if a person can only afford one rifle/pistol/shotgun/22 for the foreseeable future that is sometimes that is where we find ourselves. Craig has a single action .22 revolver but those are really plinking/ small game guns. So we are at the one pistol question.
I think a few key things are important to talk before going into specific models:
Common calibers are common for a reason. Buy a 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45ACP in auto's or a .38 special/ .357 Magnum in revolvers, maybe .44 Special/ Mag if you need bear medicine. I don't plan to argue other calibers though I know some are almost as common as the ones I listed.
Use a caliber sufficient for your task at hand. For a primary defensive pistol (vs a hideout) I would not purchase a weapon smaller than 9mm or .38 special. Folks may look at this differently as is their right. Of course a dangerous game gun needs more power. However this is where you have to make choices. A .44mag or 10mm or whatever small enough and light enough for most people to regularly conceal is not one I would want to shoot more than once. Again people may look at things differently.
Common models and calibers are common for a reason. There are oddballs still but that is mostly about personal preference and use. On the other hand some no name one year run guns are great, however some of them are not. This also runs into parts, magazine and accessory availability.
Of course what you are going to do (as well as your build and budget) matters. A pistol that is going to live in the house or truck can be as big as you want. A pistol carried for bear protection should have a round sufficient for those tasks. That being said I think that once a few really rural folks are factored out the answers are pretty similar for most people.
That being said I think it is important for a single pistol scenario to keep an eye toward concealed carry. A pistol you can't reasonably conceal fails at its primary job, being the gun you can have all the time. Maybe you do not want to carry today but there could be a crime wave or a disaster or whatever that changes your mind.
Now onto specific models.
Personally I recommend the Glock 19 to Craig or pretty much anybody looking for a good all around pistol. In my opinion (and a lot of other much smarter people's) it strikes a great compromise between the shootability and round count of a service sized handgun and the conceal ability of a smaller pistol. Personally I can conceal one easily wearing cargo shorts and a polo or light short sleeved button up shirt. Also they are as (or more) reliable than any competitor and are one of the most common pistols out there which means parts/ mags/ accessories are more available than most if not all competitors. Any place that sells ammo has 9mm and any place that has gun stuff has Glock stuff. Also the Glock offers a lot of gun for your money. You can buy the service pistol which is arguably the standard all others are judged by for somewhere between $400-500 bucks. That being said I can see how reasonable people may differ.
It is worth noting that everything I said about the Glock could be said about the Springfield XD or Smith and Wesson MP series. The only exception is that they are slightly less common than Glocks if just because they are fairly new to the market. Due to this they have fewer mags/ parts/ accessories floating around though maybe not enough to matter,.
If you want more power .40 S&W is a good answer. Not necessary but if it makes you happy then rock on. It is a darn good round though a bit more expensive to shoot than 9mm. Also it is snappy or maybe even unpleasant in smaller/ lighter pistols.
Personally I would be inclined to stick with a double stack magazine. Yeah they are thicker but the trade off is a whole bunch more bullets. For reference a Glock 19 holds 15 plus 1 in the pipe while single stack compact 9mm's will usually hold 6 or 7 plus 1. Personally I am not so sure it is a trade off I would be willing to make. Then again you could argue these new subcompact/ compact single stack 9's (and .40's) like the Keltech, S&W Shield, Ruger LC9 and (though not new really) various Kahr's are in competition not with double stack compact 9mm's but with subcompact single stack .380's I would say a 9 beats a .380 any day, especially if the size and weight are close.
As to revolvers for an all around gun I would get a 3" .357 magnum like a Ruger SP 101 or whatever model S&W is comparable. Snubby revolvers are difficult to shoot well and as such IMO not a good all around choice. On the other end of the spectrum a large framed .357 Magnum like a S&W Model 19 or Ruger GP 100 is a great pistol but probably too big for concealed carry without a coat. While a snubby .357 to carry and a 4 or 6 inch wheel gun for the house/ field is a good combo neither stand alone all that well so we are left with the 3".
For Craigs specific situation:
Do not get a pocket pistol for your only pistol. A tiny .380 is a great little carry piece to have as part of your battery if you have other pistol(s) to use as a house gun or for other defensive purposes. As a
If a Glock 19 is not a viable option I would look at the Keltech PF 9. Personally I do not have any experience with this pistol but NutnFancy seems to like them which is a pretty solid endorsement. Also since the cost is around $250-300 that really helps in the cash area. You could probably get a PF 9, a holster, an extra set of magazines, a couple boxes of 9mm defensive ammo and a few boxes or maybe even 500 rounds of 9mm FMJ to stash away for around $500.
The PF 9 is certainly small enough to carry regularly in fairly light summer clothing. They are single stack so the round count is low but there is the trade off to thinness/ concealability. Sure there are probably some downsides but for a new $250-300 semi automatic pistol that is to be expected, you can't have everything.
To be honest I am pondering a potential role one might have in my battery. Though I have to see one side by side with a Glock 19 to really compare them.
Regardless of the specific pistol I would recommend a corrosion resistant finish for those who will be in and around water, doubly so if it is salt water. This means stainless steel or a tough finish like Tenifer or something comparable. I would not purchase a blued gun, it is just asking for problems.
Anyway those are my thoughts on that. Simply put buy a Glock 19 and everything will be alright. If for whatever foolish reason you decide not to buy a Glock 19 I hope we have hit on some things for you to consider. I think the comments section could get fun.
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22 comments:
Thanks Ryan, this was very informative. While I like the Glocks, as I said, they are on the upper end of my price range. The Keltech option is very attractive, as you pointed out, I can get everything for it at the price of a Glock alone. There's an old song that goes "A little bit is better than nada". I have to maximize what I can squeeze out of a dollar, and right now it looks like the Keltech makes the most of those dollars. Maybe later I could get a Glock, but my next weapon purchase will be a semi-auto rifle. If I can beat the ban....
Don't discount purchasing used firearms to save some cash. With times being tight for many people right now, you can find some good deals on "extra" guns folks are parting with to help make ends meet. Usually in good shape too, as the reason they are being sold has also kept them from being shot a lot.
I would take that Glock advice a step farther, and say look around a little bit for a Police Trade In Glock. You will get a gun that is a little older, functionally sound, has some carry wear, hasn't been shot much, and is 2/3 or less than the cost of buying new.
Ditto on te Keltec. Gun snobs cover your ears; I carry a pf9 clipped inside my pants on the front and a p3at in the pocket. I can be in Carhartt pants and a tshirt and you'd never know.
In cold weather situations that are hairier than usual, the 380 gets bumped for the pf9 in a coat pocket and a FNP9 clipped on the front.
I love the clips, rarely use holsters.
A very good piece. My pocket gun is a bursa thunder 380 cc (concealed carry) with buffalo bore hardened flat nosed lead. The penetration for that round is 18-20" ! It will go through to the spine or through a cranium. It's comfortable on the hip, cargo pocket or motorcycle vest. I always have it on around the house or when working outside. When traveling about I opt for bigger gun like my 1911 or my px4 45! The bursa is then my backup. I've never had a problem with it even with the bb rounds. the finish is brushed nickel and not a trace of rust. The kick is a little more with the bob rounds, but not bad. Of course that's relative as I love to shoot my ruger redhawk 44 all day long, lol. I personally don't care for the look and feel of glocks, but that's just me as I'm old school.
I couldn't agree more. When a new shooter asks me "what gun" I tell them to look at the M&P (or maybe a M&P compact) in 9mm or a G17 or G19. You simply can't go wrong with either.
I like the M&P's ergonomics a bit better (personal taste) but the aftermarket support is better on the Glock.
Unless a mafia don has taken a hit out on you, or a meth lab has opened up next door, I think folks are better off saving for another few months and getting a quality sidearm or finding a used model rather than skimping on such an important piece of gear.
As another suggestion -- for folks on a REAL tight budget I like the S&W M&P REVOLVERs (yeah, the old school model 10 in .38 sp). They're going for around $250 delivered (with S&H!) these days. I feel better about a revolver than I do about a cheap semiauto which is going to be prone to malfunctions. Still, I'd prefer to save another hundred bucks and get a used glock, myself.
Craig,
I own the PF-9 and it's a great carry gun. Very light, reliable and accurate for what it is - close up defense work. Kel-tec also makes the P-11, also a 9mm, it holds a few more rounds and it is also very concealable. The P-11 is easier to shoot than the PF-9. It holds 3 more rounds too, and it's not much bigger than the PF-9.
Take a look at that too. You should be able to find either for under $300 new in the box.
If really on a budget, check out the surplus guns in 9x18 mak - CZ 82s around $200 to $250; perfectly serviceable.
I also love G19's. Find a used one and it should fit into that price range.
I had a PF9 and let's just say I wasn't impressed. It really feels like junk compared to a Glock and I had some problems with it. It's also "snappy" in the hand to say the least!
In conclusion, listen to the man and find a used G19 in your price range. You won't be sorry!
Thanks for all the info folks. I'm basically down to the Kel Tec or a G17. I need to go to the gun shop and check them both out...
Great discussion here. I actually went the other way and got a Ruger LCP. Why? -- because I live and work in an Urban/Suburban environment but I want to hold true to the rule of having a Concealed Carry weapon: carry, carry, carry.
The LCP means that I can have a weapon, carry it in a pocket and nobody every has to know. It's light, easy, reliable, and is able to meet the carry, carry, carry rule.
Anon
the PF-9 is snappy and I'll agree it is not a Glock. Depending on the budget, it may be a good choice. Mine has never gave me any trouble and I have fed it all kinds of ammo; ymmv.
However, for the price of a PF-9, you may come real close with a *used* G19 in a pawn shop. Hit the pawn shops like a turkey vulture.
I once bought a beautiful greenish hued parkerized mossberg 590 at a pawn shop for $200 out the door. The next time I visited the shop, the salesman had been moved to jewelery and wasn't allowed to help me - heh.
Also, re: ammo. I buy Federal HST LE whenever I can.
It's actually in stock at ammunition-to-go right now, which can be a rarety:
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/50rds-9mm-federal-le-tactical-hst-124gr-hp-ammo/manufacturers_id/36
(I have no affiliation with them)
The picture of the expanded round on the box is how it actually looks. I have an expanded 9mm HP around here somewhere; expanded diameter was equal to greater than 2X if I recall correctly. It expanded as much as the .45 HP that a friend was shooting.
Not trying to start a caliber war; my point is the premium ammo on the market now is excellent.
Craig, You are welcome.
BC, Used guns are always a great option. My observation is that used guns sell closer to 80% of new though condition is a factor.
Archer, What? Everybody knows that nothing less than a 3,000 Dollar custom handgun is practical for self defense. Sounds like a solid setup.
Kenlowder, I almost bought one of those but ended up with a Glock 19 instead.
Chris, Again I think personal financial situations are a factor. If it is a matter of waiting 2 or 3 paychecks or skipping a dinner or two out I agree. On the other hand if you will be saving the extra couple hundred bucks on a very limited budget where you can just stash 5 or 10 dollars a month it makes sense to work within the current budget and get something in a reasonable time frame.
I do like Model 10's though they are a tad big for concealed carry. If he said house gun a good 4" wheel gun would have been on the list.
Alexander Wolfe, Those are proven and serviceable guns at a great value. However they are chambered in a non common caliber which is a deal breaker for me.
@6:33, Thanks for the input though it is not surprising. Expecting a Kia to perform like a Honda or Toyota isn't realistic. Then again a Kia is better for commuting 40 miles to work than a 10 speed.
Green Eyed Jinn, I don't know much about those but it seems like a solid choice.
Archer,
Really enjoying your book, Western Front, right now (part 1).
Craig,
The G-17, while a great gun, is not an easily concealed carry piece. Just something to keep in mind. Good luck!!!!
Agree 9x18 Mak isn't exactly standard, but it is fairly readily available in a variety of loads. Buffalo Bore even makes a good HP round for it.
Outstanding post. Glock is great choice. I'd go used Glock if budget is tight. I also like PF9. The belt clips make it an easy/quick concealed carry option without need for holster. Only complaint is I had some issues with magazine release but fixed easily. It is snappy, but so easy to carry concealed, it has to be considered. I prefer Glock performance, but have hard time denying PF9 with belt clip in appendix carry!
I would tell some one to get a pistol that feels good and fits. Then practice, everything from 1 yard to 10 yards (can you clear your piece and fire at belly button range?).
Survival is best summed up by Tuco Benedito Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez (Eli Wallach) in The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
summed up the whole situatition best - "If you're going to shoot, shoot, don't talk!".
My FO/RO believed that a hit with a 22 beat hell out of a loud miss with a 44.
Correct me if im wrong , doesnt a mod 19 use the same mag as a 17? Which hold 17 party favors in the mag. Not to split hairs . Thanks for your blog.
so on
Doesnt a mod 19 use the same mags as a mod 17? Which hold 17 party favors.Not to split hairs but 2 in the hand beat 2 in the box .High desert livin
Here is the deal w/ glock mags. Glocks can take their mag or a larger one of the same caliber. So a G19 can take G17 mags. By party flavors do you mean the big 33rd extended mags? If so any Glock in that caliber. 2 more bullets in the gun is fine and good unless it means the.gun.gets left in the car or house instead of carried.
My bad I thought 19 s came with 17 rounders . I have 5 glocks , 17 ,34 21,22, and the mid sized 45 (cant remember #) but no 19 . Low threat/anxiety I carry a s&w m&p 340 ti/scandium 357 w/ speer gold dot 134 gr.+p & one speed loader.Light and capable I can drop it in my cargo pocket of my shorts.
HighDesert, They come with the 15s but 17s fit thoughtheystick out a bit.
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