Showing posts with label .30.06. Show all posts
Showing posts with label .30.06. Show all posts

Saturday, April 6, 2013

Basic Guns Part 4: Rifles

So far we have a quality .38, a pump shotgun and a .22 rifle. The big boy comes last. A centerfire rifle is really the way to go for hunting medium to large game at anything but under 50 meter jungle/ brush distances. Yes I know you can sling slugs a bit further than that to 100m or so but lets not get distracted. Between it's ability to reach out and touch somebody and go through soft body armor/ walls/ cars a rifle is the best option for fighting people outside of CQB range.

The rifle is last because they are a pretty specific tool and tend to be fairly expensive to buy and equip. Also in most realistic situations you can get by fine with a shotgun. Anyway here we go.

The cheapest option is a Mosin Nagant. These are really the cheapest rifles out there. Pretty much the worst of the WWI-WWII bolt guns. Fit and finish is terrible and ergonomics equally so. While theoretically capable of decent accuracy their abysmal sights make turning that into reality an iffy proposition. Honestly the only strong point of the Mosin is availability at cheap prices because the Commies made approximately eleven billion of the things then went broke and sold them. To be fair these guns are pretty rugged and reasonably reliable. Guns made to be used by illiterate teenage conscripts need to be. Some spare parts are available and the guns are cheap enough to potentially have spares (though that leaves the point of this series a bit). In my area you can get a Mosin for $150. If I recall some online seller (Aim or J&G I can't recall) was selling them for $129 a couple weeks back which probably equates to $160 all said and done at your local FFL.

Though it's spiked recently in general 440 round spam cans of old commie ammo are available at good prices. Since it hasn't been made in forever I suspect that surplus ammo will eventually dry up. Granted some modern commercial ammo is available it just eliminates the ammo cost advantage of these guns.

The Mosin is definitely the cheapest option. For a person who wants a rifle in case something happens but doesn't do much with it in the meantime (granted not training is a bad plan but I'm being real here, some folks do this) has a good pump shotgun for home defense, as a Mosin is 5 feet long, weights 35 pounds and is bolt fed from a 5 round magazine, that's on a really tight budget a Mosin and a few spam cans of ammo is a valid option.

For not that much more money in the $300-400ish range you get a lot more options. Bolt action deer rifles (go .308 or 30'06) and lever action 30-30's are available in this range. As to specific models I would get one of the many common manufacturer/ common model rifles like the Winchester model 70, Remington model 700, Ruger model 77 or the Savage 110. Sure I missed some but you get the idea. For lever guns I will focus on the Winchester model 94 and Marlin 336 both chambered in 30-30 Winchester. Mossberg has stepped up to the plate with a good entry but it's too soon to tell and parts availability could be problematic. The Rossi/ Puma type lever guns are questionable when it comes to ruggedness/ reliability and long term support in my opinion.

(Note I lumped the various MILSURP rifles such as the Enfield, Springfield and various Mausers into this group as it better represents the cost to purchase and equip those weapons. )

Both have plus sides and minuses. I discussed these recently in another post. To recap: Both are good options. The first question I have would be about the range you are looking at taking game from. If you plan to take shots past 125-150 meters I would go with the '06. On the other hand if closer shots in the 30-100 meter range are the norm and you want a light fast brush gun a 30-30 is hard to beat. My second question would be about what this rifles secondary goal(s) are. If you want a long range/ 'precision' rifle the obvious answer is the '06. On the other side of the coin the 30-30 is a solid choice (for non mag fed military rifles) for up close defensive stuff and makes a great "truck gun". Third would be what other rifles do you own; sort of dovetailing with the last question if this gun needs to fill another niche that must be considered.

Personally if I had to get by with one gun that was not magazine fed (AK, AR, PTR-91, etc) it would be a lever action 30-30. That's just me. Many folks would say the same about a bolt action .308/ 30'06 which is fine too.  As to models the Marlin might arguably have some advantages and is cheaper than the Winchester. That being said I prefer the Winchester 94. They feel better in my hand and nothing says 'Merica like a Winchester lever action rifle.

While I prefer a good deer rifle or a lever gun to a Mosin the cost to feed your rifle is a consideration. One of the downsides of both these options is ammo is expensive. 30'06 ammo is available cheaper MILSURP if you jump through the CMP hoops but otherwise we're looking 75 cents to a buck a round.

As to equipping whatever rifle you decide to buy:
Rifle
Sling
Cleaning Kit
Something to carry ammo
500 rounds of ammo *minimum*

I say this to be realistic for folks who go the deer rifle or lever gun routes. Somebody on a basic gun budget isn't going to buy 3,000 rounds of 30-30 ammo at .75c-$1 per round. Honestly I like a lot more ammo but this is really more of a regional disaster/ economic collapse type setup than Mad Max or fighting a war. If I had this setup in a bad scenario I would only use the rifle for defense or dangerous game. Hunting would be done predominantly with the .22 rifle. 

 Thoughts?











Tuesday, April 2, 2013

Busy Day and Gun Selling

Had a long day at work today. On the plus side I ended up getting the 200 rounds of 9mm (Win white box) needed for upcoming training @ 30 cents a round. After that ended up selling my 30'06. That puts me out of the caliber. Think it's just temporary. Will probably own another one, albeit in a different configuration, sooner or later. Time will tell.

Well anyway I've been slacking a little bit lately. Put some much needed admin energy to the blog. Efforts at work have been draining me mentally. Will put out something good for tomorrow.

Friday, June 8, 2012

Gun Porn Post

In my collection there are a couple guns (1911 and M1 Garand) that are marked for sale. One may be spoken for and the other I will have to put a bit of effort into. The two should get me at least a grand though $1,100ish would be better. For awhile I was thinking about different things I could get with that money. A little pocket pistol like a Keltech P3AT or the Ruger knock off would be nice. Then again the new takedown 10/22 is super cool and I have a total gun crush on it. Of course I can always use another AR or Glock 9mm. So many options. Then I got to really thinking.

What I actually need to do is take care of a bunch of little stuff to really get the guns I already have (admittedly not a bad battery) set up properly. Over my time here I have done most of the heavy lifting in this area by purchasing plenty of mags, spare parts and some ammo. Still there is some work left to be done.

About 3 guns need trijicon night sights. The Glock which lives in the bedroom should have a light attached to it. My Springfield '06 needs to get drilled into so I can put a scope on it. On the bright side I've got a 3x9 Leupold lying around so that should be a pretty affordable project. I am still looking at options but both a rifle and a shotgun could use lights too however that might not make this round of purchases. There are probably a few other little things I can use.

Another thing to do when I get home is get my M4agery set up properly. I have the gun and an ACOG to go on top of it. Prior to putting that on I need to get a backup iron sight and zero it. (Previously it had a detachable carry handle) Still toying with the idea of putting a light on it. The thing doesn't have rails and at this time I don't plan to mount anything else so buying them just to make a light slightly easier would be a waste and I don't really want a rail anyway. That means either one of those hose clamp type setups or using a novel little piece of rail that hooks into the A looking hole in the front sight. The rail setup looks like the way to go as it lets me use all manner of lights and is in about the right location. For about 8 bucks it is worth fiddling with anyway. I don't think it would be stable enough to hold a zero on a laser but for a light as long as it points straitish that is good enough.

On another front I have recently switched from carrying a Buck 110 back to the clip in your pocket one hand folder type knife. It is so convenient to just slip a knife into my pocket and have it vanish. Also the Buck is way more knife than I need the vast majority of the time and I have one handy in the car anyway. Currently I am carrying a medium sized Cold Steel Voyager. I am not totally thrilled with the thing but it was already in my pile of knifes. One of my guys had an Ontario Rat 1 which looked pretty nice (and got good review online) and for about $35 it it is worth rolling the dice. I am not totally opposed to paying more for a knife but would want to be able to handle one before doing so which is problematic here.

On yet another front you can get the new 2012 15th Anniversary Edition of the LDS Preparedness Manual for free download from www.ldsavow.com. You may or may not agree with their theology but Mormon's have their stuff together when it comes to preparedness. It would be foolish not to take advantage of the free resources they offer to the public.

Anyway I am going to wrap this up. Hopefully you all have a great weekend.

I have received some interest in the two guns I plan to sell which is suprising and cool. The 1911 is a Springfield Mil Spec .45 and the M1 Garand is well, an M1 Garand. The 1911 may go to a buddy who I always offer right of first refusal (and he does the same) on gun sales. As to pricing I am pretty out of touch and will have to do some research to get a final solution.

The complication that spawns this post is that I am in Germany and my guns are at home in the PNW. Not going to inconvenience a family member that has been doing me a favor with taking detailed pics, let alone shipping through an FFL or a personal sale. In the early fall I will be headed back to the US. Any action would have to take place at this time.

Sunday, January 2, 2011

What Did You Do To Prepare This Week?

I had a  pretty slow week but that is expected for the holiday season. I went shooting which was fun and worthwhile. Also picked up a couple hundred rounds of Walmart white box 9mm ammo and three boxes of 30.06. Test fired the 1903 Springfield and a little goof of my own aside it is good to go.

Today I took a couple hours and got the warehouse all squared away. A bunch of boxes of stuff that had been purchased over the past year or so got packaged up for storage. I also cleaned some guns and did a little bit of maintenance on the couple that needed it. Some ammo got repackaged and put away too.

One annoyance I had this time home when I first went into the warehouse was finding ancillary equipment (mags, ammo, holsters, etc) for the two guns I wanted to have ready. I opened the safe, grabbed my Glock and AK and was like man, I wish I didn't have to dig through all these cans to find mags and ammo to fill them with. Everything was put away and it was just a big pain. Eventually I found what I needed. In todays repacking I took one of those old (why did they switch to the new ones, they suck) Cabellas dry boxes that Stephen loves and put the following stuff into it: 4 ak mags, 300 rounds of ammo, 3 Glock 19 mags, 100 rounds of 9mm JHP, a kydex open carry holster and my new Biachi 100 professional for CCW. It is sort of like in this great post from my last big contest by TEOTWAWKI Blog. I don't have any mag pouches in the box though they would be a good idea. I have pouches in my Army junk box at my residence which could do the job. If I would have thought of it before coming home I would have brought them but oh well. I don't see myself using said mag pouches but it would be good to have them in the box. I have started carrying a spare mag for my Glock in my off side cargo pocket. I decided to try it while I was home and liked it. Two mags of 15 (or 17) rounds each is a lot of ammo and should be plenty for anything I could end up in going to the Walmart or driving to a friends house. A bandoleer for rifle mags certainly makes sense. Gives me something to improve for next time. Most likely I will order a bandoleer and another mag pouch as it is hard to have too many of either. In any case next time I go home I only have one can to mess with right away.

All in all it was a good week for me.

What did you do to prepare this week?

Friday, December 31, 2010

Range Report Two

Took Bro In Law to the range today. It was also just kind of my 'do some training and break the cobwebs off some stuff because I am back home' day. Took the Glock 19, the AK, my Browning Buckmark and the Springfield 1903. The following events occured:

-Couldn't find any 7.62x39 ammo in the two places we drove by. No biggie, just took a few boxes from the stash and mentally allocated money to replace it on my next order.

-Picked up all the stuff and headed out. Realized we didn't have hearing protection and stopped at a hardware store. Ended up with a big box of the disposable ones instead of just enough for today. Realized we didn't have any targets so I got a case of cheap soda to shoot at the store. Realized I can use a dedicated range bag. Something to keep hearing protection, targets, a few mags, etc in all the time. Just add guns and ammo and I will be good to shoot. Since I won't be shooting again for awhile this isn't a hugely pressing issue but I will add it to the list.

-Got to the range and laid everything out. Put on hearing protection, loaded Springfield and pulled trigger, hit target and cycled bolt then pulled the trigger again, nothing happened so I cycled bolt to see if it hit the primer, nothing came out and the chamber was empty. Said a dirty word. Pull bolt back and try again, it doesn't seem to go back far enough to catch the round in the magazine. Said a dirty word. Fiddled with safety and took bolt out of gun. Put bolt back in and it then picked up a round, pulled trigger and hit target, repeat 2x including curse words. Decide the problem will not be immediately corrected and I will mess with it later. Curse more and move onwards. On the plus side it shoots but on the down side it won't feed. It looks like the mag portion is working fine and the bolt just won't go back the last fraction of an inch to grab the round. So that was kind of a big sad face. Any ideas?

-Get Bro In Law shooting. Help and coach as necessary.

-Take out Browning Buckmark. Shoot it. Man I wish they made a mag for that thing which held more bullets. Bringing the .22 pistol was a great idea. They are really the only gun which an average guy can afford to take to the range and shoot until he is bored. Always coming from now on when I shoot pistols.

-Shoot Glock. Practice rapidly drawing from my concealed carry setup and shooting controlled pairs. Repeat at various distances and practice transitioning from one target to another. Shoot a couple rounds further out.

-Alternate between the Glock and the Browning. Fun times and good practice ensue.

-Shoot AK. The more I am shooting it the more I am enjoying that gun. Simple, reliable, pleasant to shoot and (reasonably) accurate. It doesn't jam and will shoot dirt cheap ammo all day long.

-See a guy with an AK that had one of those side folding wire type stocks. Decide I should ask how he likes it. I catch them as they are just about to leave and ask how he likes it. He said he really liked it. He then took it out of the bag and let me fiddle with it. I too liked it. Asked where he got it and he said one source tactical. It also had a grip they sell which he strongly suggested I get also. I know where my next $100 or so of gun  money is going.

- We shot some more. Bro In Law was a quick learner. Taught him to load and clear manfunctions and all that good stuff. He greatly improved at pistols over the course of the range day and just plain did well with the AK. Right before it was time to leave I did a couple mags of deliberate fire at 100 meters with the Glock. We used to always finish that way. I did it this time both for tradition and because it is a good idea to know how my carry piece shoots at distance. After a couple mags I have the answer. It would be generous to call my grouping minute of man but it was much tighter than minute of SUV. I will call it minute of fat man.

-It was time to leave. We picked up the last of the brass, did a quick inventory to make sure we had all the mags and stuff and left. We ran out of time before ammunition but that was OK. It is always one or the other.

I was disappointed with the Springfield and there is just no way around that. However this is why test fires are important. At the range this was lame but at the end of the day not a big deal. An issue like this while hunting could mean a missed opportunity or worse a wounded animal getting away. In a defensive situation the stakes would be far higher. On the bright side I have some redundancy and worst case this isn't a core weapon anyway.

All things considered it was a good range day.

Wednesday, December 22, 2010

Range Report

Today I went shooting. With the high price of ammo (down from a year or two ago but still not exactly cheap.) these days I do not go shooting without a task and purpose. However if you really want to go shooting it is easy enough to find a task and purpose. In any case thinking it through and having something worthwhile to accomplish is probably a sound idea.

I had 3 tasks to accomplish at the range. First I needed to test fire the Garand. Really just wanted to make sure the thing works. Second I wanted to check the zero on my AK. I had the secondary task of ensuring that it feeds hollow points. Third I wanted to confirm that the new hollow points I got feed in my Glock. 

We got to the range and laid our stuff down. I loaded an en bloc clip into the Garand, slapped the bolt home (it doesn't snap forward after the clip seats very reliably) then got a sight picture and pulled the trigger. There was an authoritative report and moderate recoil (more than an AK and less than a 12 gauge game load) which was enough to let you know you definitely fired a shot but not so much that it would get unpleasant if you shot it for awhile. The gun cycled perfectly and the clip sprung out with a nice ping when it ran dry.

I was pleased that it hit exactly what I was aiming at and blew the heck out of it. Considering it is a 30.06 second shot acquisition is suprisingly good. Shooting targets offhand at 100 meters was easy and fun. At some point if I find myself at a nice range with a rest to really dial in a good 50 meter zero then move out to a couple hundred meters to confirm I will. Until that time I am pretty happy with its accuracy. It was fun to shoot and I was bummed when all the ammo was gone.

Next up was the AK. I popped in a mag of Wolf JHP and let it rip. The AK hits where it is aimed at 100 meters and cycled flawlessly. From the way it was shooting I would say 200 meters would be just fine and, at least given my current skill with the rifle 300 would be pushing it to accurately engage a man sized target. If I practiced more with it and took the time to fine tune and confirm the zero it could bring it back inside a good minute of man. Going out to 400 meters would be minute of SUV. In any case that is all you really all you need out of a defensive rifle, especially as a civilian.

 Last was the Glock 19 with 115 grain Federal JHP's. Just put a mag through to make sure it fed and things were fine. I work under the assumption that a Glock will shoot a properly sized rock stuffed in a casing with a live primer with a fire cracker for a load. However it is always good to be sure. Wish I had brought some ball ammo to really practice with as the Glock 19 is sure a fun gun to shoot.

I went back and cleaned the Garand because old Pakistani machine gun (it came linked) ammo I shot was surely corrosive. Not a big deal, just a quick cleaning with emphasis on the bore. I will go back and do a good cleaning before putting it away.

It was a great range day. The weather was nice and we talked a little with some nice folks. The Garand got a lot of interest. Most importantly everything I brought cycled and hit what it was pointed at. Hard to have a better range day though more ammo would have helped;).





Sunday, November 8, 2009

First Gun and the Pistol and Rifle Idea.

FerFal wrote a post on first guns. To be honest I sort of hate this kind of hypothetical stuff but somehow keep coming back to it. Everybody should get at least a good centerfire pistol, a pump shotgun, a centerfire rifle and some sort of .22. I suggest a Glock, a Remington 870, an AR and a Ruger 10/22. Having bought them I am fully aware these are not cheap guns. Matter of factly I believe almost all people (its tough if you are truly disabled and on a small pension, etc) would be well advised to get quality modern firearms like the ones I named above. Scrimping, saving and working extra hours to get good guns sucks (I once worked full time over Christmas Break to get an AR) but you will not regret it in the long run. Guns aren't the place to scrimp and try to save a few bucks.  Commander Zero wrote a great post on this awhile back.

To not get too focused on debating this gun vs that gun really the possible combination are almost endless and provided you stick to common caliber (.38/.357mag, 9mm, .45acp for pistols and .223, 7.62x39, 30-30, .308, 30-06 for rifles of course 20 and 12 gauge for shotguns) firearms in common model/manufacturers (S&W, Ruger, H&K, Glock, Sig, Colt, Browning, Winchester, Mossberg, Remington, Marlin, AR, Mini-14, AK, FN-FAL, HK-91, M1A, etc all) you will probably do fine.

You need a centerfire pistol for carry and generally being discretely armed. Shotguns are probably the king of home defense and generally a great utilitarian gun to have (we will talk more about them later). Rifles are useful for hunting, plinking, and really the only decent option to shoot just about anything past about 100 meters. I think everyone should also have a .22 (I would suggest it be a rifle) because they are so darn useful and dirt cheap to shoot. These 4 guns will not deal with every possible situation in hunting, plinking and potential defense. The rifle you want if things to truly to hell is almost invariably a magazine fed semi automatic and not the one you would want to hunt Moose with and it might be convenient to get a subcompact carry pistol for EDC. I suggest these 4 basic guns because they will be good for most situations in defense, plinking and sport and are the foundation of any good home firearms battery.

However what would be best for people to get while they are on their way to this basic 4 is part of the question at hand.

I used to say a shotgun but FerFal's wisdom changed my mind. Some folks say a rifle but I think they are more wrong than the shotgun crowd. The thinking behind a pistol is that it is the only weapon you can have with you all the time without being arrested or causing a scene. Also you can answer the door or investigate that strange sound outside armed without giving Granny Smith your neighbor a heat attack. A shotgun is probably better strictly for home defense and a rifle might be better for a genuine TEOTWAWKI but both fail to take into account far more realistic and probable situations.


Shotguns for home defense also came up in the post which inspired this one. I am not saying that a pump shotgun is a talisman. No matter what any add says or infers no gun is going to turn you into a Grizzled Master Sergeant from CAG, sorry. I honestly believe the best all around gun for home defense is a short barreled  pump shotgun. Mossberg and Remington are the best options since Winchester kicked the bucket. Some have noted that shotguns hold a relatively small amount of ammunition @5-9 shells and used that for a reason either pistols or rifles are better for home defense. I would mention that the average gunfight is a couple rounds at spitting distance but well we plan for the worst not the best or average. Shotguns are better for home defense than pistols for many reasons. First without getting really far into the weeds on ballistics and round selection I don't think anyone has ever seriously questioned the man stopping power of 12 (or for that matter 20) gauge shotguns loaded with buckshot. Someone who takes a load of buckshot to the torso is probably going to be out of action very quickly or at lest as quickly as any other weapon we are discussing.

The other fact which I think mitigates the relatively low capacity of shotguns is that most people shoot them far better than pistols. No matter what anyone says you have to aim shotguns to hit anything. The reason I say people shoot them better is that the combination of being on your shoulder and a good cheek to stock makes shooting much more intuitive and easy. Take a bunch of folks to the range and have them shoot at a variety of targets at defensive ranges with a pistol and a shotgun, bet almost all of them will do better with a shotgun.

This has turned into a really long  post and I am just getting to the actual new unique thought. The just get a pistol and a rifle idea (or getting them first in priority) has popped up here and there from time to time. To be honest I can only see two situations where it makes sense. The first is if you want/ need a rifle and space is really limited (living on a boat, etc). The second is if you had a rifle already, bought a pistol and are waiting till you have the cash for a shotgun. Lastly maybe for whatever reason you just really don't want to have a shotgun, can't see why you wouldn't want a dozen of them but different strokes for different folks.

The reason most people don't just decide they need some guns and go to the store to pick up a Glock, a Remington 870, an AR, and a Ruger 10/22 is that they cannot afford to do so. Guns, particularly modern quality guns are expensive. Really the only reason this comes up at all is that it takes lots of folks some time to save and scrimp together enough cash to get a nice basic firearms battery.

The reason I believe a rifle as a second gun (after a pistol) is a bad course of action is not so much about the individual attributes of shotguns vs rifles but is all about economics. You can buy good used Mossberg or (to a slightly lesser degree) Remington pump shotguns for less than $175 all day long until you run out of cash or get bored. These days you can't touch an AK for much less than $450ish and once you get 20 mags at about $9  a piece the cost goes up considerably. An AR which wasn't made in somebodies basement is going to cost at least $700 or more depending on how name centric you are. Mags cost about $12 for Mil Spec and a bit more for MagPul. I don't even want to talk about how much good semi auto .308's cost, the M1A I want and will some day get is going to cost about a pound of flesh.

For a shotgun all the accessories you need are a sling, a buttstock shotshell carrier. Plus of course ammo. You can get a good shotgun with its needed accessories for less than you will spend on rifle mags alone! Shotguns are far cheaper than quality defensive rifles and thus you can have a long gun and a pistol far sooner by going the shotgun route. This way you will be as well armed as possible while saving up enough coin to get a rifle.

Here is where someone is going to mention surplus bolt guns. I covered my opinions above but lets reiterate as it applies to the long gun for defense. Yes some older style and WWI-II surplus rifles can be purchased for much less than modern quality rifles such AK's and AR's or various .308's but they are almost universally a horrible choice for defense particularly inside the home or in close quarters. They are big and heavy/ cumbersome, slow to reload and a potentially deadly choice given the potential for multiple adversaries in close quarters. For someone married to the idea of a close quarters defensive rifle without the desire to get something semi automatic (and probably mag fed) I would suggest a lever action 30-30 as they are relatively cheap, compact, fast to reload and generally the best of the undesirable options in this range.

In conclusion I think it is smart to buy a defensive pistol, pump shotgun, centerfire rifle and a .22. I believe quality modern guns are worth the money and that most people should make the choices necessary to get them. For those who have no guns buying a defensive pistol first and a pump shotgun second is IMO the best course of action with a centerfire rifle and a .22 to follow at a later date when funds allow.

Thoughts?

Thursday, November 27, 2008

Turkey Day

It is Thanksgiving and we are shaping up to have a pretty decent little celebration. My Brother in Law drove down from South Carolina where he is working these days. A couple guys from work are coming over because it was too far for them to go home. We've got all the normal stuff plus the shrimp cream cheese and cocktail sauce dip I love and sugar cookies with frosting and sprinkles.

We were watching the parades for awhile, not so much because we like them but because that is what you do on Turkey Day. I had a little bit of Baileys in my second cup of coffee which was nice. It will be the first time Wifey has ever cooked a turkey and the first time I have ever carved one. Fun times. I am about to head to the store for a couple little things we need which should be an adventure.

Yesterday my shipment from J& G came so now I've got 30+ en bloc clips and 5 bandoleers for the Garand, enough to load all the ammo I have now and a couple to spare. Tomorrow I plan to go pick up some M2 ball for a belated National Ammo Day. I was too busy working to get to a gun shop this week. I also want to do some looking at hi cap mags in terms of availability and cost. If the cost is decent odds are a couple three AK mags will come home with me.

Might write some more stuff later.