Showing posts with label comments. Show all posts
Showing posts with label comments. Show all posts

Monday, March 25, 2013

RE: Basic Guns Part 3: Shotguns

My recent post on shotguns in the basic guns series drew a comment worth replying to. It already got a pretty good response but I'll take a shot at it also. Here it is, I will reply after each piece in italics.
"Let's see...
* Heavy, bulky ammo
How much ammo do you plan on carrying? For a normal home defense or siting on the porch after a Hurricane type scenario I'd be quite comfortable with what's in/ on the gun and 40-50 rounds which is not excessively heavy. True 150-250 rounds of buckshot or slugs would weight a lot but if you're trying to do that it's likely not a problem that can be solved with a shotgun anyway.
* Short range
Short range in comparison to what? [This is a systemic issue of the comment. Nothing is defined or compared to another alternative.]  Figure buckshot is good to 30 meters or so which covers probably 90% of home defense type situations. Slugs out of a standard open cylinder barrel with a bead sight are good to about 100m (if the operator does his part) which probably covers 99.9% of civilian defensive situations.
* Ineffective against even the cheapest armor
So are all but a few oddball pistols but you don't see folks running away from 9mm, .357mag, .40 and .45. The comment to use slugs is valid. Then again rifle plates that stop everything up to 30'06 AP are common place and can be purchased for a few hundred dollars. So that thinking eliminates the advantage of .223, 7.62x39 and .308 also; you would really have to move to .338 Lapua or other anti materiel type rifle that will either blow through a plate or create so much energy it would do a person in through blunt force trauma. Honestly while Goblins wearing body armor is a valid worst case scenario for home defense the real odds of it happening are probably pretty low. If a round to the plate does not do somebody in (or you see vests) transition to 'hips and heads'. In plain English if you suspect folks might have vests shoot them in the hips and then in the face. Heck given the slim but reasonable likelihood that somebody has a vest these days starting with 'hips and heads' isn't a terrible idea.
* Crap sights
Honestly I have never really had an issue with the plain old single bead. Given the realistic ranges for employing a shotgun I find them sufficient. Rifle sights, ghost ring sights or a red dot are all better and valid options but they cost money.
* Crap accuracy
If a person cannot use a serviceable shotgun to accomplish realistic shotgun tasks the issue lie in the operator not the weapons system.
* Awkward, slow reloads
 In comparison to a modern magazine fed weapon that holds 20-30+ rounds reloads are slow and awkward. On the other hand if we are comparing it to a bolt or lever action rifle I would call it a wash.
So why would I want to buy a shotgun again?"

Further commentary:  The systemic problem with this comment is that it does not compare shotguns to another option by weak point or to propose another weapons system as an all around better option. Maybe I am being too hard on this but it has it's been pounded into my head that you bring up a problem AND A BETTER OPTION.

I am a pretty harsh critic of shotguns for home defense. This guy would take an AR/ AK/ Mini 14/ Whatever over a shotgun every day of the week and twice on Sunday. $1,500 Project AR with a $500 optic blows the old 870 out of the water in about every possible way. A Mercedes or Porche SUV blows my Asian SUV out of the water and $120 a bottle Scotch beats $18 a bottle stuff. The problem is that a comparison between them that does not consider economics is invalid. 

At the time of this writing AR's run $1,200 for low end guns. AK's are running almost a grand for low end ones.  A quality shotgun costs 1/4 to 1/3rd of either. Many people are priced out of modern defensive rifles these days but any semi functional adult can pull together $250-300ish to get a good pump shotgun. Also today they are still widely available both in stores and on the private market. Think I've beat the cost thing to death.

The other big benefit of a shotgun is versatility. A rifle can do some things better than a shotgun but there are many things a shotgun can do that a rifle fails completely at. As discussed before any sort of jack of all trades is not the master of any but in this scenario a gun that does a lot of things acceptably is very useful.

Instead of comparing a shotgun to rifles that cost 3-4x as much ones in the same range might be a more equitable comparison. We will get to rifles later but the playing field between bolt action deer rifles, lever guns and old milsurp Mosin Nagants and the shotgun is a whole lot more level.  A reasonable person could choose to go rifle first then shotgun down the road but it's still important to compare apples to apples.

Considering this is the Basic Guns series and we are talking about affordable but still reliable guns that will fill a lot of roles I consider the shotgun worthwhile. 

Thoughts?

Monday, December 17, 2012

Admin Note- Comment Moderation and Spam

Hey All, The Spambots seem to have caught onto our lack of word verification or comment moderation. In the last couple days a trickle turned into a flood. Some of the stuff was SEO mooching or gibberish but a lot was sexually explicit and or seemingly links to porn. I went through and deleted what I could easily find but some almost surely slipped through the cracks. On a positive note I am pleased to say that blog readers behaved like the decent adults they are during this period of 'wild west' commenting. I sincerely thank you for that.

In any case I reinstated the word verification as well as comment moderation for posts older than 7 days. Hopefully the word verification is not too much a hassle for you all.

Monday, August 3, 2009

Reply To An Interesting Comment

Sometimes there is a comment which I think touches on something worth pulling from the comments section to the front page. This is one of those times.

Magwa said:

Buy lots of pistols for different applications! You may need to have exactly the right tool for the right job.

Moi? Colt 1911 Officers Acp .45 for simple concealed carry in warm weather (or anytime).

92 FS for general, overall, handgun applications.

.357 magnum for carry while hunting. If I were carrying a rifle or shotgun as a primary weapon I'd have no problem carrying the .357 with speedloaders for backup. There are a number of good reasons for carrying a .357 period.

Then there's idea of carrying two guns as opposed to just carrying extra magazines for one gun.

Then there's the idea of carrying a pocket pistol. Beretta Bobcat per discussion here earlier.

Buy one for every possible scenario!!!! Do your part for the American economy!!!! Multiple calibers means greater dexterity in times of shortage.

Do your part for peace and safety and train hard to shoot each weapon you own very, very well!!!! It's lead on target quickly that gets the job done!!!!!

TOR replies: To get to the foundation of my thoughts on this matter read deep vs broad and redundancy vs collecting. I think it is prudent to try and keep your logistical footprint to a sane size. Having 8 pistols which take 6 different cartridges would be a real pain in the ass and could potentially lead to problems. You can have a pretty good diverse collection with a fairly minimal logistical footprint. Say you have assorted Glock 9mm's, a few .357 revolvers (various sizes), a .380 and a couple .22's. You've got a broad variety of handguns for all manner of carry and defense, a .380 to pack when you dress up nice, and a couple .22's. That is 8+ pistols with two magazine types (Glock 9mm and .380) to worry about. Three pistol calibers and you had .22 ammo already. Maybe throw in a 1911 and cut out the .380 if you are so inclined.

To be honest right now I am looking to simplify my logistical footprint by dropping a redundant albeit potent cartridge (.40s&w). That will leave me with .38/.357, 9mm and .45 pistols. Plenty of variety, two magazine types and 3 cartridges to worry about. That they are the three most common pistol calibers (if they ain't I'll kiss yer ass) in the US is just icing on the cake. This reminds me of the addage that common calibers (and platforms) are common for a reason;) Somewhere down the road I will get a .380 but that was going to happen either way.

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