Project 870 V2 Police Magnum!!!

For awhile I have been on the fence about this project. Part of me knew that it might just make sense to get a purpose build defensive shotgun. Once I figured in the cost of a tube extension and such economically it would be about even. So I've been sort of watching for the right gun. Around here the trend in shotguns is to bolt on a bunch of stupid cheap accessories then believe your shotgun is now worth $700. Anyway I said something might happen on this project today and it did.

Enter Project 870 V2 Remington Police Magnum

Dog had to get in on the action. As you can see this gun has Ghost Ring sights and an M4 style adjustable stock. The sights are from Iron Sights Gun Works.

The stock and forend are Blackhawk SPEC Ops. The stock is adjustable in the M4 style I hate (except on M4's) but that's what it came with. I'm either going to swap the furniture for standard furniture (or the Hogue equivalent) or buy standard furniture and put this stuff away as a backup set.

The finish on this gun is not great. It was probably a police cruiser gun at some point. The guy wasn't entirely honest about that but it gave me a point to negotiate some cash off the price so that was OK. I was on the fence about going all Hoss USMC and painting it anyway so the finish doesn't really matter, just makes that decision easier. However again along the police cruiser gun theme it doesn't seem to have been fired much and the inner workings are very nice, dusty but nice.

Was able to get it out to the range for a little bit today.  The gun is noticeably heavier than a standard 870. These things are built like beasts, which is why I wanted one. It holds 6+1 which is nice. It shoots well though I might need to adjust the sights a little bit. The pistol grip gave a good angle to support the gun but put my hand in the wrong place for the controls. Overall the stock was OK I guess but it's just not for me. Got to handle an 870 with the Magpul furniture and that was really nice. It looks weird but the angles give you a lot of control and the cheek to stock is just right. Darn expensive though so it will be awhile, if ever, before I get one.

The needs for a tube extension and sights are covered as the gun already has them. Aside from replacing the furniture it needs a sling, a light and a way to hold ammo. A sling is easy, spare ammo is easy (velcro and cards), a light is simple but expensive (and I have some decision making to do there).

So that is where Project 870 stands today. The gun that was Project 870 (V1) will be sold to pay for this purchase. I borrowed money from another gun fund to make this happen so the proceeds of the planned sale will replace that cash.

 Now I'm going to see how this dirty girl cleans up.

Jack Asks Glock 26 or 19?

My recent discussion of the J frame received a comment on our general discussion of the Glock 26 I wanted to reply to here.

@ Grasshoppa and Ryan,
I'm currently looking at an in between from an LCP, my little pocket rocket and my FN 40. I've decided at this point, I want to go 9mm for capacity and more power than a .380. Right now I've thought of the G19 but have recently been playing with the idea of a G26. Either way I carry one back up mag so the difference from 25 to 30 rounds isn't a biggie. If it works out, and the wifey likes it, which I'm almost sure she will since she loves my dads SR9c, I'd get her one down the road. Anyway what are your thoughts from your G26 and 19, respectively? Personal preferences, wish you woulda gone the other way first? I'll probably get both down the road but that could easily be years. Also, taking my current set up in mind, I've got a pocket rocket and a full size what would you suggest? Thanks for your time and help!!! Much appreciated!

Jack

 Jack, If you had said "I'm looking to get my first handgun. It's narrowed down to a Glock 26 or a Glock 19, which should I get?" or "I can only take 1 pistol on our upcoming road/ boat/ whatever trip; should it be the Glock 26 or Glock 19?" the answer would be simple. Glock 19 every day of the week plus twice on Sunday. However your question is a bit more complicated. First you already have a full sized pistol and a tiny gun. Second we get into concept of use.

I love the Glock 19. It is a great compromise of shootability, concealment and round count in a sufficiently potent cartridge for 2 legged predators. On the other hand like any compromise there are some sacrifices at the extreme ends.

When I was a kid in Scouts and such we camped a lot at least 1-2x a month year round. Money was relatively tight for most of us. We couldn't afford to have sets of summer, spring/fall and winter tents/ sleeping bags/ etc. That meant we had to make choices. Gear that was ready for January in the mountains out of the box was a real drag the rest of the time. On the other hand super light summer stuff wouldn't work for half of the year. The answer was to split the middle and get what I would call 3 season gear. In the summer it is easy enough to sleep with a bag open. In the winter you slap a tarp over the tent then add a fleece or wool (depending on the situation) blanket with the sleeping bag and you were good to go. Wasn't perfect but it worked pretty well.

To answer your question we have to get into concept of use. For a gun that will do house duty, concealed carry and potential SHTF type duty I would go with the Glock 19. After selling off a couple other pistols it has became my do everything handgun. For this concept of use I prefer the Glock 19. On the other hand if I wanted the commonality and reliability of a Glock 9mm in a package that was comfortable to carry to the store for popsycles on the hottest August day and already had a larger handgun for other purposes the Glock 26 would probably be the way to go. So my answer would be no I would not do it the other way around. Granted if I had it to do over again, knowing I would later want a Glock 26 when  they are unobtanium at sane prices, might have done some things different so it would be in the safe now but not instead of a G19. In any case there is usually another gun you really wish you could've bought.

[Along those lines I've came to terms with the fact that I'm not getting a G26 any time soon. When they are showing up prices are well above $600 with $650 being pretty common. Simply not willing to pay that silly of a price for something I do not NEED. Availability will come back sooner or later then I will purchase a gently used Glock 26 for a reasonable price. Kinda lame but oh well.]

For your situation. It seems to me like you are looking for a larger more potent gun that YOU WILL CARRY on those hot summer days to the corner store. I fear for that concept of use a Glock 19 will lose out to your LCP almost every time which misses the point of buying it. There is a distinct possibility it will sit by the FN in the safe. On the other hand a Glock 26 will probably make it out the door a good percentage of the time.

So those are my thoughts on that. As always input is appreciated.
-Ryan

Why the 50 Meter Zero?

Rourke linked to an excellent pictorial about ballistic trajectories from different zero's over at M4.com.

Let's look at the trajectory using a 25 meter zero.

If you look the bullet path is 8 inches high from roughly 125m to250m. This is a real problem. This is enough of a problem that folks will miss targets. In fact that is what happened.

My informal understanding of the development of the 50 meter zero is as follows. Dudes were missing Tango's in the 100-150 meter range which was pretty close to the max range guys found themselves fighting at in Iraq (yes there was that occasional long tail fight which was further but lets not get into the weeds). After some consideration, or quite frankly I'm not quite sure what, the SOF community began to transition to a 50 meter zero. This trickled to varying degrees into the conventional Infantry guys and the shooting community at large. That is how the 50 meter zero came about in my understanding. If anybody (John Mosby, K or Lizard Farmer come to mind) has a better understanding of that development through something other than reading on the interwebz I would be interested in hearing it.

So let us look at the 50 meter zero.

As you can see this zero is much flatter. From the muzzle out to 250 yards or so (varying slightly by barrel length, twist, etc) the bullet is at +/- 2 inches. This is what matters. Granted I might need to hold over a little bit at longer distances but inside 250m it's just muzzle on target, relax, squeeze trigger. Since the vast majority of military engagements happen well inside that envelope to me it is a very easy decision to make.

I use a 50m zero for my fighting rifle and recommend it to others. I do not think your choice of optic should affect the zero chosen. The 50m would be my choice for iron's, a red dot or a scope. It's pretty awesome on my Burris MTAC. Really the only reason I can see going with another zero would be a gun with a concept of use other than a fighting rifle. For a DM or varmit gun I might look at a 36 meter zero to keep it within 4" out to about 350 meters.

The way I personally execute a 50 meter zero is to just do a 25 meter zero then back out to 50 and adjust the point of impact down to be on at 50m. The reason I do this is that it's a lot easier to get onto paper at 25m saving ammo then back it out to 50m. I think it's faster and certainly saves ammo by starting closer to zero (due to distance). Suppose I could move the sights sufficiently then confirm but I've been lazy and redneck adjusted (fire a group, move the sights, repeat as needed till on target).

Anyway that is why my rifle is zeroed at 50 meters and I suggest you do the same. That is my thinking on that.

Gun Show Report 4/27/13

Turns out our little town had a gunshow today! So needless to say I had to check it out. As I'm in the market for a Glock 26 it made sense to go look. It was interesting for sure. Aside from the baby Glock I wasn't really looking for anything but was open to a great deal or something small to fill a need.

Guns: Tons of AR's, AK's, SKS's and Mini 14's. A good variety of semi auto .308's; M1A's and PTR-91's, a FAL n a solitary genuine HK G3 (semi). Older guns like Garands and M1 carbines were present as well as lots of hunting type rifles. Plenty of semi auto pistols like XD's, M&P's, Sigs, Glocks, etc though due to the sheer variety in that market the specific gun you want (in my case a Glock 26) might not have been be present. As to Glocks there were at least 1 each 17 and 19, a few various .45's and a couple G27's.Shotguns and .22's were also present in large numbers.

Prices varied widely. Some politically incorrect guns (mostly AR's n AK's) were priced OK considering the state of things. A couple AR's were at or around a grand. They were DMPS, the basic M&P's or comparable brands. Saw 2 nice new (dealer) rifles (BCM and Stag) for $1,150ish. Other rifles varied from optimistically priced to just silly. Several AR's from brands I have never heard of were listed at $1,600-1,700. AK's ran from $1,200 Norico Mac-90's to a $850 WASR. SKS's were running $500ish. M1A's were $2,200-2,500 and PTR's were 1,200-1,400.

Hunting rifles, shotguns and .22's were a little high but if you consider that bargaining is a given part of it's probably their padding. Ruger 10/22's were consistently priced at $325.

Pistol prices were consistently 50-100 higher than they should be. Glocks were 550-600. A guy was trying to get $850 for XDm's and another wanted $800 for a Jerico (IMI the same gun as the Baby Eagle I think) in 9mm. Revolvers were priced pretty optomistically also.

Mags: Lots of mags available. Big stacks of various AR mags and a decent speckling of PMAGs. Sig and Glock mags were present as well as some Glock 33rd 'happy sticks'. A lot of AK mags also. A speckling of less common rifle mags like Mini-14, M1 carbine, SKS detachable mags (d model?), HK G3, FN-FAL. Probably 2 dozen Ruger BX-25's and a dozen various off brand 10/22 25rd type mags. Several old guys with stacks of used mags for just about every gun made in the last 50 years.

Mag prices: USGI used AR mags $20, new aftermarket type (Brownells, Lancer, etc) AR mags $25, PMAGs $35 which is odd because a shop in town has a bunch @$21-22. Those big 60 rd surefire mags from $160-200. AK steel presumably surplus $25 except a solitary mag @$45. BXP's $60-80. Glock mags $35-40, HK G3 mags $20-25 and they were pretty rough. Those are all the prices I remember but they generally fit the same relative price point as the ones I paid attention to.

I saw 2 CMMG .22 conversion mags for the first time in awhile. Wanted to buy them but didn't see the .22 conversion kit sitting nearby and justifiably the guy would not sell them without the kit. He of course tried to sell me an AR to go with the kit I didn't want to buy (wanted the mags) then we ended up talking. He wanted my opinion of the kit. I said without changing my rifles sights it offered sufficient practical accuracy out to at least 25 meters to train or I suppose shoot small game. Told him that was sufficient for my needs and I am happy with the kit.

Ammo: This was just silly. The big local shop had a table selling .223 (PMC X-tac 55gr) around $11/20 with a 2 box limit. They had a bit of pistol ammo but I think it was for folks buying guns. Everybody else pretty much lost their damn minds. 9mm 25+/50 for brass FMJ's. .40 and .45 were more like $30/50 brass FMJ. .223 at 17/20 at one booth with the rest at a buck a round (for various low end range type ammo). 7.62x39 from $9/20-$11/20. .308 was at least a buck a round. A solitary spam can of 7.62x54R for $140, surplus 30'06 was a buck a round. Surprisingly shotgun ammo was pretty expensive also. The dudes selling .22 ammo must have been smoking a special type of crack that breeds optimism. Bricks (500-550) of bulk type .22 lr were on tables varying from $80-120. Saw the little 50 round boxes of CCI Mini Mag for $30.

One dealer in particular seemed to have utterly lost their minds. They were trying to get $40 for standard (Federal or Remington, I don't remember) 20 round boxes of 150gr soft points and $179 for a brick of federal .22lr. They had ammo cans (albeit the plastic with rubber seals) at a decent price but out of principle I did not buy any.

Discussion: Loaded guns were not allowed inside. Some guy cleared my Glock 19 for me into a makeshift (think it was a 5 gallon bucket of sand but it faced a cement wall) barrel then it was zip tied, marked with a white sticker and returned to me. Not sure how I feel about that but considering folks have been shooting each other fiddling with guns inside or busting caps all over the place trying to clear their guns on the way in it makes sense.

Now that we have talked about what folks were TRYING TO SELL it makes sense to talk about what was actually being sold. Semi automatic pistols were moving. I was driving around trying to find the place and saw a dude walking down the street with a pistol in his hand (think it had a tag on it) and asked him if it was the gun show to which he relied that it was. People were looking at handguns then some of them were buying. Hunting rifles and shotguns priced right were moving. Various collector type stuff as well as little odds n ends (holsters, etc) were getting picked over, examined, bargained over and occasionally purchased.

As to mags they weren't going anywhere. Didn't see a single AR/ AK/ G-3 mag sold nor any common pistol mags like Glock/ Sig/ XD/ etc. Saw one guy getting Mini-14 mags plus a few people looking for a spare mag for their hunting rifle, .22 plinker or an oddball (50's era .380, etc) pistol mag.

Plenty of people seemed to be looking at ammo but few were buying.  At the prices I saw it is hard to blame them. One dude really wanted .22 but not at the prices being asked. A couple folks picked up 1-2 boxes of .223, a couple got a box or two of pistol or shotgun ammo and a few folks wanted a box for various hunting type rifles. Nobody was picking up arm fulls of the stuff.

Some individuals were selling doing the walk around with a sign on their chest thing. Most had the usual odd mixture of a 40 year old .22, a 1911 and whatever. One dude had an FN-AR .308 which was pretty cool, didn't even ask the price. A dealer I asked about G26's tried to buy my Glock 19.

Personally I bought a book and 3 of those little plastic AR muzzle caps. Stickers said 12 to which I offered 10 which was accepted.  Looked at lots of guns, handled a few, laughed at some ammo prices, chatted with some nice people and generally had a fine time. Would have liked to leave with a Glock 26 but it wasn't a bad way to waste a couple hours.

How does this compare with your neighborhood?

Quote of the Day and a Happy 10 Year Blogiversary to Commander Zero

"Next time some idiot crows about how a ‘working man’ can’t afford all those ‘survivalist yuppie toys’ and that ‘real people’ can only afford a Mosin Nagant and barrels of rice, remind yourself that over a long enough timeline anything is affordable. I sure as heck didn’t get all this stuff at once, heck theres stuff I wanted when I started this blog that only recently have I been able to afford. The truth, class-bashing aside, is that if you want something badly enough you will find a way to make it happen."
-Commander Zero

And a happy Blogiversary to him. 10 years is a really long time. 

Project AR Upgrade: Troy Rail and DBAL I2?

So I am getting ready to complete Project AR Upgrade. Funding is about 70% in place and pending a transaction tomorrow will be complete. Here is what I am looking at.

Rail: Troy Battle Rail Delta. I want to keep the standard gas block/ front sight for a few reasons. First cuz I've got it and the gun is zeroed, second cuz I'm cheap and third they are IMO more rugged than any folding type sight that would go onto a rail. The minimalist type rail seems like the way to go giving me all the benefits of a free floating barrel but an easier and cheaper install. Honestly I wouldn't bother except wanting a solid place (to hold a zero) to mount an IR laser.

IR Laser: Looking at a DBAL I2. Would go with the red vis laser because I don't use the vis anyway.

Pending that sale and a little bit more research I should be able to pull the trigger this weekend or early next week. If you have any experience with this stuff or comparable products please let me know your thoughts.

Basic Guns Part 4: Rifles

So far we have a quality .38, a pump shotgun and a .22 rifle. The big boy comes last. A centerfire rifle is really the way to go for hunting medium to large game at anything but under 50 meter jungle/ brush distances. Yes I know you can sling slugs a bit further than that to 100m or so but lets not get distracted. Between it's ability to reach out and touch somebody and go through soft body armor/ walls/ cars a rifle is the best option for fighting people outside of CQB range.

The rifle is last because they are a pretty specific tool and tend to be fairly expensive to buy and equip. Also in most realistic situations you can get by fine with a shotgun. Anyway here we go.

The cheapest option is a Mosin Nagant. These are really the cheapest rifles out there. Pretty much the worst of the WWI-WWII bolt guns. Fit and finish is terrible and ergonomics equally so. While theoretically capable of decent accuracy their abysmal sights make turning that into reality an iffy proposition. Honestly the only strong point of the Mosin is availability at cheap prices because the Commies made approximately eleven billion of the things then went broke and sold them. To be fair these guns are pretty rugged and reasonably reliable. Guns made to be used by illiterate teenage conscripts need to be. Some spare parts are available and the guns are cheap enough to potentially have spares (though that leaves the point of this series a bit). In my area you can get a Mosin for $150. If I recall some online seller (Aim or J&G I can't recall) was selling them for $129 a couple weeks back which probably equates to $160 all said and done at your local FFL.

Though it's spiked recently in general 440 round spam cans of old commie ammo are available at good prices. Since it hasn't been made in forever I suspect that surplus ammo will eventually dry up. Granted some modern commercial ammo is available it just eliminates the ammo cost advantage of these guns.

The Mosin is definitely the cheapest option. For a person who wants a rifle in case something happens but doesn't do much with it in the meantime (granted not training is a bad plan but I'm being real here, some folks do this) has a good pump shotgun for home defense, as a Mosin is 5 feet long, weights 35 pounds and is bolt fed from a 5 round magazine, that's on a really tight budget a Mosin and a few spam cans of ammo is a valid option.

For not that much more money in the $300-400ish range you get a lot more options. Bolt action deer rifles (go .308 or 30'06) and lever action 30-30's are available in this range. As to specific models I would get one of the many common manufacturer/ common model rifles like the Winchester model 70, Remington model 700, Ruger model 77 or the Savage 110. Sure I missed some but you get the idea. For lever guns I will focus on the Winchester model 94 and Marlin 336 both chambered in 30-30 Winchester. Mossberg has stepped up to the plate with a good entry but it's too soon to tell and parts availability could be problematic. The Rossi/ Puma type lever guns are questionable when it comes to ruggedness/ reliability and long term support in my opinion.

(Note I lumped the various MILSURP rifles such as the Enfield, Springfield and various Mausers into this group as it better represents the cost to purchase and equip those weapons. )

Both have plus sides and minuses. I discussed these recently in another post. To recap: Both are good options. The first question I have would be about the range you are looking at taking game from. If you plan to take shots past 125-150 meters I would go with the '06. On the other hand if closer shots in the 30-100 meter range are the norm and you want a light fast brush gun a 30-30 is hard to beat. My second question would be about what this rifles secondary goal(s) are. If you want a long range/ 'precision' rifle the obvious answer is the '06. On the other side of the coin the 30-30 is a solid choice (for non mag fed military rifles) for up close defensive stuff and makes a great "truck gun". Third would be what other rifles do you own; sort of dovetailing with the last question if this gun needs to fill another niche that must be considered.

Personally if I had to get by with one gun that was not magazine fed (AK, AR, PTR-91, etc) it would be a lever action 30-30. That's just me. Many folks would say the same about a bolt action .308/ 30'06 which is fine too.  As to models the Marlin might arguably have some advantages and is cheaper than the Winchester. That being said I prefer the Winchester 94. They feel better in my hand and nothing says 'Merica like a Winchester lever action rifle.

While I prefer a good deer rifle or a lever gun to a Mosin the cost to feed your rifle is a consideration. One of the downsides of both these options is ammo is expensive. 30'06 ammo is available cheaper MILSURP if you jump through the CMP hoops but otherwise we're looking 75 cents to a buck a round.

As to equipping whatever rifle you decide to buy:
Rifle
Sling
Cleaning Kit
Something to carry ammo
500 rounds of ammo *minimum*

I say this to be realistic for folks who go the deer rifle or lever gun routes. Somebody on a basic gun budget isn't going to buy 3,000 rounds of 30-30 ammo at .75c-$1 per round. Honestly I like a lot more ammo but this is really more of a regional disaster/ economic collapse type setup than Mad Max or fighting a war. If I had this setup in a bad scenario I would only use the rifle for defense or dangerous game. Hunting would be done predominantly with the .22 rifle. 

 Thoughts?

Reader Question: 30'06 or 30-30 Winchester

Ryan,
Since you mentioned 30'06, I was wondering what you've found to be the best "configuration" as you said you'd probably get one in a different configuration.
I've got a lot of basis covered firearms wise but a large caliber (i.e. .270 on up) is missing besides an old Pattern 14 .303 Enfield which I've been wanting to sell lately to get a Bolt '06 with open sights and also put a scope on it or a .30-30. I'm looking for a utility rifle that can drop just about anything up to an elk. I was also considering most compatible and common which led me to an old Winchester, Rem, or Ruger '06 with back up sights or an old .30-30.
$400 is my rough price range and I'm from Oregon/Northwest. Thoughts at all? What do you like? Thanks!
-Jack

 Ryan: Hi Jack, I had a sporterized 1903 with peep sights. Fine gun or whatever but not quite what I want. Personally it will be replaced by a modern bolt action rifle designed to be scoped, probably a Savage 110 chambered in 30'06 or maybe .308. That's just me. My goal is to build a budget precision rifle that can be used for hunting if needed/ desired.

As to your question. Both are good options. The first question I have would be about the range you are looking at taking game from. If you plan to take shots past 125-150 meters I would go with the '06. On the other hand if closer shots in the 30-100 meter range are the norm and you want a light fast brush gun a 30-30 is hard to beat. My second question would be about what this rifles secondary goal(s) are. If you want a long range/ 'precision' rifle the obvious answer is the '06. On the other side of the coin the 30-30 is a solid choice (for non mag fed military rifles) for up close defensive stuff and makes a great "truck gun". Third would be what other rifles do you own; sort of dovetailing with the last question if this gun needs to fill another niche that must be considered.

Sorry that isn't a clean cut answer but the questions should give you a pretty good idea of which gun might best serve your needs. I will talk a bit more about these rifles on Friday with the next installment of the basic guns series.

Kel Tech SU-16 Affordable Lightweight Concealability or Garbage?

The topic of the Kel Tech SU-16 came up recently. My initial thoughts are that it is probably not a long term hard use gun but they are really light, fold up small, take AR mags and shoot .223 ammo. For a gun to conceal in a backpack or cache someplace it has some potential. Also they are very inexpensive which means I would be more willing to risk one being lost than an AR. I know there are a couple versions, one with a plastic front sight that seems less than ideal.

If you have personal experience with the Kel Tech SU-16 I would like to know your thoughts. 

Basic Guns Part 4: .22lr Rifle

To catch folks up who haven't seen this series the concept is as follows. It is the Basic Guns series and we are talking about affordable but still reliable guns that will fill a lot of roles. Remember this is not "the coolest most expensive guns that fill a specific roll well". I am trying to help people make good choices that are quality but heavily consider price and in the current environment that eliminates a lot of options. Instead of making people feel bad they cannot afford an AR and a Glock with 4x basic loads of mags I want to help by proposing some viable, affordable options. So don't be a sharp shooting dick saying how a gun 3x the price is better, we already know that, just go with the spirit of the series.

So far we have a .38 revolver and a Remington 870/ Mossberg 500 pump shotgun. Now we are going to get a .22 rifle. I put a .22 before a centerfire rifle for 3 primary reasons; first the rifles are cheap, second ammo is cheap, even at today's temporary inflated prices .22 is 10-12x cheaper than standard center fire rifle ammo. This means it is easier to stock a lot of it and shoot a lot. Third since most people who need this series are not really gun people it is a great way to learn to shoot rifles so you will be more ready for a center-fire rifle down the road.

The price point we are looking at for a .22lr rifle is pretty low. $175- 200 can get you a solidly serviceable .22 rifle today in Southern Arizona. Since many of our used guns are smuggled into Mexico and sold on the black market  prices are a little higher here you can probably get one a bit cheaper elsewhere. I suspect the $150-175 is probably reasonable in a lot of areas with slightly lower used gun prices.

Primarily the gun I want to talk about is the Marlin model 60. It is semi automatic and tube fed. Most of them work great and run forever. I have personally seen a couple have problems though I suspect they would probably work just fine after a good cleaning. They are cheap, and since they have a tube fed mag do not require detachable mags which is good as they are stupidly expensive these days, so you really just need the gun, a sling and some ammo.

[I do not currently own one of these but the next time there is cash in the gun fund and one pops up at a good price it will come home with me.]

If you are lucky or patient Ruger 10/22's can be found for just a bit more money which they are totally worth. For other options there are a lot of .22's made. I cannot recommend against the Remington 597 strongly enough; wasted money on one that never worked right then eventually gave it away to my buddy's little brother. Savage bolt action .22's are nice (at least I've heard so) and affordable though I do not have personal experience with them. The AR-7 take down .22lr is a nice idea but the gun patent/ production has been sold more than a cheap hooker so more lemons are probably in circulation than gems. There are many other .22's out there. So many old bolt action Marlin/ Remington/ Winchester's out there it would be impossible to talk each one. At the end of the day if it is made by a major manufacturer, you can get spare parts for it and the price is right then go for it.

If you want to spend a bit more and get a better gun purchase a Ruger 10/22. They are awesome, modular and magazine fed. Just great guns. 

My setup would be:
Marlin model 60 .22lr
sling
2,500 rounds of .22lr ammo

Thoughts?

New Years Resolutions- Finalized a bit late

I dropped some draft goals awhile back and was recently reminded of them. It is high time I solidify them.

Physical:

Maintain a consistent weight lifting program.

Run a half marathon (I changed to this because it's March and I haven't tracked mileage which was a big fat fail)



Continue working on barefoot running towards the goal of running on a  variety of terrain up to 5k barefoot

Transition to running fully in minimalist shoes

Ruck at least 1x a week

Eat reasonably with decent consistency so I don't gain and lose the same weight 2-3 times over the year.

Skills/ Training:

Attend a defensive handgun course.

Work on developing a variety of other skills as they come up by doing as much myself as possible.

Guns and Gun Junk:

Pick up a couple holsters and assorted other stuff to get squared away for what we have. (Specifically a nice Bravo or Raven concealment kydex holster for the Glock with TLR-1, a good OWB holster for the J frame, and an ankle holster.)

Purchase a DBAL and free float the barrel on project AR.  (The DBAL is almost funded I just need to do a bit more research then pull the trigger.)


Finally complete Project 870. At least the tube extension and sling. The light angle I've got to do some thinking on.

Get more spare parts. Beef up on core stuff (AR's and Glocks) and get some basic stuff (firing pin, extractor, ejector, springs, pins, etc) for other guns.

Finally get my (already sporterized) 1903 30'06 tapped and mount a scope on it.

If things work out and decent deals come along I would like to get a single shot 12 gauge and another .22 rifle. 

Subcategory Ammo: I am only doing this if prices get back to normalish. Would take my best whack at it and if I get half done be happy.
5k .22lr
1k 9mm
1k 12 gauge (mixed about 400 buck, 100 slug and 500 mixed small game loads)
2k .223


Food:

Build up to a 1 year supply of food for 4 people.

Can something

Continue with my garden this year.

Pursue fishing/ hunting as it fits with our environment and life. 

 Energy/ Other:

Get a better solar setup. A bigger panel with a power supply and a few small lights is the answer. Goal 0 makes what I am looking for. It will cost about $400. Probably 500 once I get the lights. This would have gotten purchased late in 2012 but the whole ban madness shifted my priorities elsewhere.

Get licensed to drive a motorcycle. Maybe purchase a used enduro/ adventure touring motorcycle.

Continue putting together and refining our systems. Firm up the bug out bags and the heavy (vehicle) bug out setup.

Re look and improve our cache situation.

Financial:

Continue being debt free and saving. Along these lines continue not doing stupid things. 

If we reach our food storage goal get back to putting away some silver and gold.

Long Shots:


Start on the AR Pistol.

Buy some land (this mostly depends on some other things).

As always input is welcome. It would be fairly useful now before these resolutions are solidified. 

Firearmagedon Price Check

How much is the following stuff running in your AO? How is availability?
AR-15's?
PMAGS?
USGI/ aluminum AR Mags?
.223/5.56 ammo?
AK's?
AK mags?
7.62x39?
SKS's?
What about .308 ammo?
Glock 19/17's?
Glock 19/17 mags?
9mm ball?
.38 special?
.40?
.45?

Basic Budget Guns Part 2: Handguns

To continue the ongoing series (Part 1, Part 1.5, Part 1.75) today we will talk about handguns. To catch you up I recommend buying common model firearms from reputable and common manufacturers chambered in a common caliber. Also remember to consider the cost of fully equipping them when comparing and pricing guns.

The goal here is to get a basic gun that fits a tight budget but is still a good solid weapon to bet your life on. The distinction between this and the cheapest guns out there is significant.

While I do not have a clear price range in mind a loose goal of $350 (of course markets vary so these guns might be 4 and a quarter in LA or 300ish in Alabama) to $400 seems like a good mark. This is of course for the gun itself, though if you buy used a holster (and maybe extra mag) might get tossed into the deal.

For a one handgun solution I tend to favor compact pistols. A .38/.357mag *3 inch* J(small) or 3-4" K(medium) sized revolver is a really good option. I would recommend Smith and Wesson or Ruger or if those are not available a fairly new Taurus. Unless you know what you are doing (which is not the target audience of this series) an older Charter Arms, Rossi, Taurus, etc might very well be a lemon and only useful as a paperweight. Newer Smiths run out of this price range in a hurry but an older revolver like a Model 10 or 64 can be had in this price range. Rugers do pop up here also. Both will probably run a bit closer to $400 but they do not need mags.

The reason revolvers will come in the cheapest is because you do not need mags. Figuring $25-35 for most mags (not today, we'll get to that in a minute) and that IMO you want a bare minimum of 6 mags cost adds up fast.

For semi auto's the Kel Tech PF9 and Ruger LC 9 both seem like pretty decent contenders and are in our price range. They are towards the smaller end of guns I would be comfortable with for an everything handgun but they are readily available and take single stack mags which are still out there at sane prices. The really little .380's and 2" J frames are difficult guns to shoot well and not especially fun to shoot which means you are less likely to put in the time to learn to use them. This combination makes them less than ideal beginner guns.

Interestingly Iraq Vet8888/ Barry of Moss Gun and Pawn did a video on handguns under $350.

Won't disagree with anything they said but there are inherent compromises in basic budge guns. Compromises that are acceptable for one person might not be acceptable for another. If you are a bit less concerned about commonality of ammunition and parts the Bersa .380 is worth looking into. If you plan to buy all the ammo and parts you will every need with the gun then the Makarov is a fine option.

Note that I really haven't talked about  any double stack auto's. Glock pistols and in particular the Glock 19 (which would otherwise be my choice here) are relatively hard to find these days. You can get them but (excluding oddballs like .45GAP) they are running a bit more expensive than before firearmagedon. In my neck of the woods it will be very hard to touch a non oddball used Glock for under $550 with $600 probably being average. Most significantly the price of full capacity double stack mags that hold more than 10 rounds (especially Glock 9's)  is up considerably, though they are slowly trending down. Glock mags are running $43-45 in my neck of the woods and it's a sellers market. This is significantly up from the $25-28 pre panic prices. For a guy like me who wants to have 9-10 mags that is a big price difference. Between the higher price of the gun and mags I think the Glock 9mm is currently priced out of a "common man" budget. The same can be said for the other pistols that would normally be in this range. Smith and Wesson Sigma's and the old Ruger P series still offer good value if you can find mags at a sane price.

My basic budget handgun setup would be:
-handgun (duh)
-6 magazines for an auto/ some speedloaders for a revolver
-500 rounds of ammunition. In a perfect world you might have 500 rounds of JHP ammo and then some FMJ for plinking but if the budget is tight consider getting 100 rounds of JHP and the rest FMJ. If the budget is uuber tight just rock boring old ball ammo.
-decent holster that can be used for concealment
-belt stuff enough to comfortably hold said gun in holster

Personally I would be looking for a decent used revolver either a Smith and Wesson Model 10/64 .38 or a Ruger Security 6 .357 really whichever came up first.

Hope that helps somebody. Next chapter we will talk shotguns which will be short and easy.

What Did You Do To Prepare This Week?

A few things happened here. Recently I have put some time and energy into stocking a few extra household items. Stuff like laundry soap, light bulbs, etc. Also picked up a few OTC meds and a half gallon of 'emergency whiskey'. While obviously not a good choice for some emergencies but for plenty of more likely ones 2 drinks at the end of a long day would be nice. It isn't a bad idea to stash some of whatever you like.

Didn't really do a long run but overall last weeks fitness efforts went decent. 

Ended up selling off the crimson trace laser grips that came with my new revolver. They are cumbersome for concealed carry being fairly large for a small gun like a J frame. They are just subtly too big to really let the gun do what I want. Also I shoot it better using the sights anyway. It's true they may be useful someday but that potential day is a long way off and during that time many new developments will likely come into play. Long before then I will probably be running red dots on my defensive pistols anyway. Also it dropped the price point for the little wheel gun which was nice. More importantly along with another sale freed up some cash for some things I will keep to myself at least for now.

Well that is what I did to prepare this week. What did you do?

Basic Guns Part 1

LyndaKay said "Thanks for #5. [Get basic guns, read the rest here. TOR] Hubby and I are trying to decide what to buy and don't want to go overboard on the spending when there are good and less expensive alternatives.

I would LOVE to see threads started on this blog listing a specific gun and asking what brands of ammo everyone likes for that particular model. I'm a little overwhelmed by everything I read and have no one locally to give me their opinion."

Ryan here: Lynda, I will do my best.

It is worth noting that we are in a weird gun environment right now.  Guns that were realistically affordable for Joe Common Man are now quite expensive and probably out of Joes budget. In particular semi auto military pattern rifles have gone up 50-100% in price over the last couple months. All manner of full capacity mags over 10 rounds have gone up in price 200-400%. .223, 7.62x39 and .308 have gone up significantly in price also.

Example: A $650 SW M&P AR-15 with 20 mags and 2 cases of ammo would have cost around $1,500 (give or take) in October. These days the rifle would be 1,200, the mags 600 and ammo is about a buck a round totaling $3,800 for the same package. So the gap between a $400 30-30 or $500 30'06 and a $650 decent basic M4/AR-15 has increased significantly.  This gap will probably slip back to where it used to be in time but till then it is here.

I think Lynda's phrase "[We] don't want to go overboard on the spending when there are good and less
expensive alternatives" deserves some examination. I am not saying it is wrong or gaming the situation or anything just that it leads us down some interesting paths.

 First I think it's worth discussing that overboard is a very relative thing. It is relative to your finances and financial situation as well as your overall preparedness goals and progress towards them. What your budget can handle and what your goals are matter a lot. What is right for one person might not be for another. Also your goals and level of interest matters a lot. Lets look at two guys with the same income and family situation. Bob loves nice guns and is preparing for a short term disaster. After he has enough food to feed the family and a few add ons for 90 days, a generator and sufficient gas to keep the freezer cold and charge some batteries plus some basic gear then buying a custom shop 1911 and a Knight SR-25 is just fine. Tom is pretty ambivalent about guns and worried about a really dark scenario like an economic crash or a black swan. Tom has a lot of different places for money to go. He might just keep the same .38/.357 that has lived in the nightstand forever and his hunting rifle, get plenty of bullets and then put the money towards other things. See where I am going.

Second 'good and less expensive alternatives' bears considering. Money gets you something. At times it is superior fit/ finish. Sometimes it is a certain name that gets you bragging rights at the gun club or on the web. Now other times the money will get you a more durable/ reliable pistol, better quality control, more common spare parts and aftermarket accessories or something else meaningful. The real question is whether you need what the additional money brings. Looking at that from the other side it is whether you can accept the downsides of a less expensive weapon. If it's a bit less perfect finish or a slightly less smooth trigger that's easier to accept than durability/ reliability issues or a lack of readily available spare parts/ holsters/ accessories. The cost to benefit is a consideration. A Smith and Wesson coming out of their custom shop will have a better trigger than a stock Ruger but probably at 3x the cost. On the other hand if you can get a lot better gun for $40 then you probably should just save for another 2 weeks.

Anyway moving on.....

What would constitute a basic firearms setup?
Rifle
Shotgun
Pistol
.22 rifle

In terms of priority it gets complicated and needs to consider a persons goals. As a general rule I would say pistol, shotgun, .22 then rifle. The thinking is that a pistol is the weapon you are realistically going to have available to defend yourself. Though pistols have unimpressive ballistics and limited range they are far better than a long gun at home. Shotgun is next because they are quite versatile and affordable. .22 would come next because they are also affordable are cheap to shoot (except right now) and a great way to train for rifle shooting. I think the rifle could arguably be last simply because of cost. Shopping carefully you can get a pistol, shotgun and .22 for the price of a lot rifles (at pre panic prices).

While I do prefer rifles for CQB shotguns are perfectly adequate for that role as well as (with slugs) killing just about anything out to 100 meters or so. A shotgun is far better than an envelope with $300 that has the name of the rifle you want written on it. It is true that a rifle would be very important in a true full on collapse that is relatively unlikely. I would feel quite confident with a good shotgun as my long gun in an Argentina like collapse, a Katrina like disaster or an LA style riot.

I am going to stop this now because of time. In the next part I will get into specific guns that are relatively affordable but also quality guns that will last and serve you well.

10 Lower Prices Solutions to Survivalism

A few ways to make preparedness fit your budget a bit better.

1. Prioritize. I know this is is a far bigger thing and really arguably negates the rest of the article but I do need to touch on it briefly. Choosing preparedness stuff instead of other things is a very valid option. I find it easier to have the goal in mind and do the math working towards it. Example doing the math that at 4 bucks a pop you would need to choose drip from home instead of fancy coffee 15 times to get the medium fixed blade knife you want or 10 nights out at $50 a pop to buy a rifle or whatever. For me this makes it a choice to prioritize that specific goal instead of just general budget tightening which kind of sucks.

 2. Cut down on your vices. Drink less, smoke less, chew less, gamble less, go from $5 coffee out to drip from home, use that money to prepare. [This is probably #1 for overall life improvement but for saving cash to fund preparedness, which is the topic of the post, I put it at #2. The reason is that prioritization (which also touches on vices) is more all encompassing.]

3. Buy used. Many things can be had gently used for 50-80 cents on the dollar. Once you take the tags off, use it a couple times and it will have a few scratches or wear marks anyway so save the $$$.

4. Build the same systems but with lower priced (but not junk) items. Common Mans $150 BOB by TEOTWAWKI Blog (though I think it's more of a Get Home Bag) is a great example of this.

5. Get basic guns. A tight budget does not mean to buy cool guns because you like them  and then skimp elsewhere. If you can't afford food you definitely can't afford an AR and a Glock, let alone an M1A and a high end 1911 with a bunch of mags each especially with prices these days!. It means you need to get basic but quality guns that will serve your needs but not bust the budget. The odds you need an AR-15 over a bolt action 30'06 or pump shotgun or a Glock 19 over an old SW Model 10 are a lot lower than that your family will start eating drastically less. Honestly if tomorrow our gun collection was a 30-30, a bare bones Rem 870/ Moss 500 pump shotgun, a pair of .38/.357 revolvers (his and hers) and a .22 it would be a decent enough setup. If we had 2 of everything and I had a J frame as well as a bigger revolver (aside from her pistol) it would be a good setup. Bought over time most folks can afford a $400 30'06 or 30-30, a $300 shotgun, a $300-400 pistol and a .22 of some sort along with plenty of ammo to go with them.

6. Get items that serve a lot of purposes. If money is tight it might not work in the short term to have 6 dedicated preparedness knives (huge camp, medium general purpose fixed, small fixed, folding EDC, multi tool and "fighting") a folding saw a hawk or hatchet and an ax. Instead a small ax or hatchet/ hawk (AO dependent), a medium sized fixed blade and a folding EDC/ multi tool (lifestyle dependent) might just be it. Those 3 tools would handle most all of your realistic preparedness cutlery needs.

Coming back to guns because we dudes tend to gravitate there and thus overspend limited resources which should be spent elsewhere. In terms of guns that can do a lot of things compact sized pistols are a good one. A Glock 19 or 3" small/ medium framed revolver can fill a lot of roles adequately. A pump shotgun with long and short barrels can do a ton of things. Toss in whatever center fire rifle fits your lifestyle and budget best then round it out with a decent .22 and you are good to go.

7. Put in the time. Oh you are busy too, well make some choices. Watch less tv or something. Learn stuff from people you know. Helping them is a great way to do this. Ask somebody to HELP YOU fix your car or wall or whatever and just maybe they will do it. Say you will HELP THEM with their next project and you'll get a phone call in a bit. Expect to carry some stuff and do some other nugg work but you will learn stuff. Also once they see you care enough to put in the time and energy most folks will go out of their way to help you learn.


8. Avoid mistakes. Buying items that don't fit your needs/ wants must be avoided at all costs. I have a variety of stuff that has been purchased then cast off to be extras or backups or sold at a loss. Even if you research enough to find out an item is quality there is the ever unquantifiable ergonomics. If money was tight I would only buy items I could personally handle and ideally try out (like borrowing a friends for a week) before purchasing.

9. Trade. There are some balancing acts there as you have to be a bit flexible but can't lose sight of your real needs as you can't afford to get unneeded or significantly lower priority stuff.  On the other hand turning your unused guitar and amp (or whatever) into the backpack and sleeping bag you need is just irresistible. Sometimes, though rarely especially with vastly different types of stuff, you can trade strait across. However more often you end up selling the music stuff to get money which pays for the camping gear.

10. Gifts. This isn't exactly a savings but it does help. Instead of asking for stuff you don't really need for birthdays, Christmas, etc ask for preparedness stuff you can use. Many folks would be happy to get you a preparedness item of comparable price than whatever the usual gift might be.

That is about all I can think of right now. Anyway I hope these ideas help give people some ideas on how to become better prepared on lower budgets.

Edited to include: After Snoops comment I went back and put them in what I feel is rank order. 

Initial Impressions Burris MTAC 1-4 and LaRue SPR 1.5 QD Mount

The good folks at Black Bear Sporting Goods and LaRue collaborated to get both my new scope and mount here in the same day. So naturally I had to fiddle with them both. Forgot to take pics at the start and then was too lazy to go back and do it later.

Please do remember these are just my initial impressions from messing with the stuff and doing a few ready up drills. An IPR and eventually a full review will come in due time.

Burris MTAC 1-4 power:
Very stout without being excessively large or heavy. The thing looks really solid. The reticle is pretty awesome. Doesn't crowd the glass but the big circle brings it onto target wicked fast like an EoTech. The graduated BDC dots seem like a really slick system. It doesn't have mil or MOA hash marks all over the place to be super cool sniper guy but that's not really what this scope is made for.

I particularly like the adjustment system for the illuminated reticule, really the whole system. The illum turns off between settings. So instead of an Aimpoint where you need to turn it all the way off then back to your preferred setting it can just be a short flick and it's at level 5 or whatever where you want it. This is pretty neat and well thought out.

The illumination has 10 settings varying from barely lit to bright enough that it starts to do the starburst type thing Aimpoints do when cranked up all the way. For reference the highest power setting is probably 80% of the power on an Aimpoint. Maybe not high enough to see at noon in the desert during August but I think it's sufficient for my needs. The normal reticle really draws your eye anyway so for normal light it's a fine option.

It did not come with a battery which was sort of annoying. I wanted to fiddle with it right away, not run to the store then fiddle with it.

LaRue SPR QD:
Stout and well thought out. The only annoying thing is fiddling with all 8 screws to get the scope in. They thoughtfully included the right sized wrenches to adjust it. Also they tossed in some meat seasoning and a cool bottle opener as some DVD and the usual catalogs n such.

The only downside of fiddling through their catalog is that now I have a serious gun crush on the 20" 7.62 OBR. It looks sort of odd and almost backwards when the mount is on the rifle but it's the same way in the catalog so I'm probably not wrong.

I am pleased to say this setup fits over my Magpul BUIS which is good. So far I'm really psyched about this setup, especially since the price was (for a legit optic and mount) pretty sane at about $550. Should get it out to the range this weekend. Will talk more afterwords.

Firearmagedon Tailing Off?

TEOTWAWKI Blog called it a few days ago and over the past 24 hours it has picked up the pace a bit in AZ (specifically Southern AZ).

AR prices are trending solidly down. I think the folks who came too late to the 'double the new price for your used AR' party are starting to realize there are not people left who can/ will pay $1,600+ for a basic PSA/ Oly/ DPMS/ Bushmaster let alone a generic Franken AR. I am now seeing these guns more in the 1k-1,200 range but nobody seems to be buying, at least in a hurry. Low end AK's like WASR's and Yugo's are down to the 1k range for the most part though I did see a Polish 74 at a $650 asking price.

Some mags seem to be slipping down in price as well. Saw some PMAGs for 30 (gently used I think) to 35. USGI in the $30 range. A few Tapco AK mags at $25 a piece. Factory full capacity pistol mags, especially of the Glock flavor, Ruger BXP-25's and some other less common stuff is basically not available. Though one guy had Ruger BXP mags listed for $70.) This is weird because this stuff was being listed, albeit at stupid prices, a week or two ago. The only thing I can figure is buyers are waiting it out and potential sellers are not desperate.

The one sad face, at least in my AO is ammunition. Evil semi auto ammo is next to unavailable at sane prices. On the private market 7.62x39 is running 45-50 cents a round (steel) in quantity and higher for smaller lots. .223/5.56 is going for 75 cents a round (brass, a bit less for steel) or higher. .308 is occasionally available a box or two at a time in more expensive hunting loads at a buck and a quarter a round. Anything on the private market is about a buck and a quarter a shot.

Other rifle ammo is generally available and prices are relatively unchanged.

Pistol ammo is sporadically available at close to pre panic prices if you do not care about manufacturer/ load. It is solidly available at higher prices in stores that marked it up and on the private market. Mark ups vary for 40% to 100+% with 9mm ($20/50 is the best deal I have seen in awhile) packing the highest premiums. Interestingly premium type defense ammo is still widely available. As Tam would say "Bubba and Cletis aren't buying more than a mag of them there holler points". I suppose the folks who are able and willing to stock the good stuff deep did it awhile back, probably at better prices.

Shotgun ammo is fairly available locally if you are not picky.  Of course the low cost Walmart type buckshot is gone but it is available at slightly higher prices.

.22lr is available in small quantities. Everybody has shifted to just making the little 50 and 100 round packs. Most stores I have been to recently has at least a few boxes, usually with a 2-3 box limit. A person can get the stuff but not necessarily in their favorite flavor.

Without the benefit of a crystal ball I would say that unless you are really desperate, which we could arbitrarily describe as less than a fighting load of mags (7x30's or 11x20's for a rifle, 4 mags for a pistol) and enough ammo to reload them all 3x, holding off might be a good idea. Your money will probably buy a lot more gun stuff in 2-4 months.

[Of course the decision would need to be based on multiple factors. The first of which is your finances, the price difference means a lot more to some folks than others. The next would be the totality of your other preps as well as your overall 2A preps. Example a guy with 6 Glocks and a trunk full of mags for them but only 3x mags for the sole M&P is in a fine spot overall. Don't stress only having 500 rounds for the .308 if you have 10 cases of ammo for the AK, etc. The last factor would be what you think is going to happen.

Anyway that is what is going on here in Southern Arizona. What is going on in your neck of the woods?

Burris MTAC 1-4 and Various Gun Accessory Stuff

Decided to pull the trigger on a Burris MTAC 1-4 power scope. Found a good deal for a bit under $350 shipped which helped make the decision easier. Now I've got to get a mount for it. Will probably just pay the money and get a La Rue. They seem to fit with a magpul BUIS which I already have zeroed on the gun and since some cash was saved on the scope anyway it will not hit the budget too bad.

Also a bit ago I received a Safariland holster that fits a Glock 17 with a TLR-1 which is convenient as I have one of those. The good side is that it is a pretty nice holster and came at a great price considering it holds a gun with a light. However the downside is that it is huge. Really only suitable for open carry or tactical use. I will probably get a semi concealable rig down the road.

Right now I do like the idea of carrying a Glock with a light but it really makes the package a lot more cumbersome. Maybe a better rig will put it into reasonable concealment territory but $100 gun things I would like to have are always a long list. Going the other way I might start going carry gun and dedicated house gun.

In that same order I also picked up a Costa Leg rig.  I am liking it a lot so far. Not interested in running a big war belt but keeping a holster and a leg rig with 2 AR and 2 Glock mags gives me the abilities I want without a big foamy thing on my waist.

My next venture in gun junk will be an IR laser. Probably some DBAL or another, their models and the differences between them make little sense to me. If you know anything about that please let me know.

I have realized recently that I am just not going to carry 2 guns on a normal basis (do for longer trips or if I am moving a lot of cash or whatever). Packing 2 guns is a hassle and my life patterns simply do not merit it. However I have gotten back to carrying a 'get off me blade'. Just a medium sized knife at about 7 o'clock just in case I need to go all stabby on somebody. I think there are two considerations to have there; being accessible by the weak hand and  being on a side different than the gun so it could be reached if you are jammed against something or body and cannot reach the gun (whether to employ a pistol at point blank is another discussion though I can't see doing it unless somebody was about to Treyvon Martin me which is unlikely) you have another option.

Anyway that is what has been going on here in terms of gun stuff and gear. What have you been up to?

Variable Power Optic Deliberation: Leupold Mark AR or Burris MTAC

I really was set on the idea of a Leupold Mark AR 1.5-4 and almost pulled the trigger on it earlier today. However for some reason I didn't. Got to looking and it seems like a true 1 power is an advantage at the bottom end. Got to looking at what was available and reading a ton of junk on ARF and such.

The Burris scopes come up a lot. The TAC-30 and the newer MTAC. The MTAC seems like a pretty good scope. I like the 1 power and the reticule is awesome. Honestly my only moment for pause is that Leupold generally makes good stuff and I do not know much about Burris. However on the downside of the Leupold, aside from being 1.5x at the bottom is that the only illum is a tiny center dot.

There were some other options out there. I'm not pinching pennies so no need to get a Millet or Leatherwood but on the other end a Schmidt and Bender Short Dot or Night Force is not happening. Vortex makes a scope in that range but I don't like the reticule. If there is something else out there under 6 bills (though I would like to keep closer to $500 with a mount)that is a true 1 power with a decent illum reticle please let me know.

If anybody has used or owns both the Mark AR and MTAC I would really like your input. Cost is about the same so it is not a factor.